Broadband unleashed...

[Raimund Eimann]

Hi,

the 26th of October is here and... as had to be expected, it's all hot air...
speed improvements instead of volume improvements. Honestly, who cares
whether the speed is 3.5MBits/s or ~5-6MBits/s if there's no volume allowance
to make any reasonable use of these speeds?

I am interested in a real flatrate plan that none of the major broadband
players in New Zealand seems to offer anymore. I'm not talking about these
nonsense "Flatrates" which suffer from "Fair use policies" and the likes.

Is there someone here who is aware of any real flatrate plans (these things
that people can use for evil P2P-terrorism...)? If someone could point me to
some (probably minor) ISP that still offers such things, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,
Raimund


Today's wisdom:
A chat has nine lives.
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[Lucas Young]

I'm liking Orcon's offering - I was on the 3.5/512 plan with a 60GB
cap for $160/mth, I'm upgrading to the fullspeed/fullspeed plan with
100GB for $180, and that's going to keep me happy for a long time - I
remember on a big month, downloading TV shows and movies, I might hit
60GB max, I cant imagine I'd hit 100GB very easily even with the
extra speed.

cheers

Lucas

Post by Raimund Eimann
Hi,
the 26th of October is here and... as had to be expected, it's all hot air...
speed improvements instead of volume improvements.

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[Raimund Eimann]

Post by Lucas Young
I'm liking Orcon's offering - I was on the 3.5/512 plan with a 60GB
cap for $160/mth, I'm upgrading to the fullspeed/fullspeed plan with
100GB for $180, and that's going to keep me happy for a long time - I

When Orcon was still offering their real 256kbits/s flatrate, I reached 70GB
per month quite regularly (~83GB is the maximum possible per month at this
speed). With 3.5Mbits/s or even more I would probably eat this volume for
breakfast and face a huge bill at the end of the month for exceeding the
cap...

Also: the 256kbits/s flatrate only cost $49.95/month (later only if you
decided to join their tolls, otherwise $59.95), that's considerably less
$/GB.

Hmm, seems nothing is around then. Currently I'm swapping accounts once per
month with a friend who also has one of these Orcon 40GB/256k plans. He's a
very light user, so I'm still getting close to the 70GB mark without extra
cost.

Post by Lucas Young
Telecom still charge ISPs when users go over the 5GB mark from memory...

Ok, so Telecom can still impose funny volume limits... I guess the whole
unbundling thingy is not really taking off then? The decision was made almost
half a year ago, so ISPs have had some time to put their own equipment into
the roadside racks? Or is the price for international bandwidth still
dominating the cost, even if ISPs put in their own equipment?

Cheers,
Raimund

Today's wisdom:
The optimum committee has no members.
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[Paul Brislen]

someone said:

Ok, so Telecom can still impose funny volume limits... I guess the whole
unbundling thingy is not really taking off then? The decision was made almost
half a year ago, so ISPs have had some time to put their own equipment into
the roadside racks? Or is the price for international bandwidth still
dominating the cost, even if ISPs put in their own equipment?

Not quite, no....

the decision was made six months ago, but of course it takes a while to
percolate through.

The process:

1: Govt announces unbundling
2: Govt introduces Telco Amendment Bill
3: Bill goes to first hearing in parliament
4: Bill goes to select committee (YOU ARE HERE)
5: Bill goes back to parliament for a couple of readings/tweakings if
appropriate
6: Bill becomes Act.
7: Unbundling commences.

We are about half way through the process and there's still a way to go
before anyone is allowed in to Telecom's network to install kit. Of
course, Telecom could open up its doors now and say "we see the light,
come in friend, come in on and all. We shall charge but a penny a port to
connect" and we'd be all on, but that's not likely to happen.

Instead, we still have the situation where Telecom sets the retail
product, then works out the "wholesale" (really just resale) rate and
passes it on to the ISPs. They have very little control over what they
can/can't offer in conjunction with the service and while Telecom is
happily offering its limited "unlimited" plan, the other ISPs are stuck
with the 4GB or 10GB/month/user aggregate limit, over which they start to
haemorrhage money.

So - earliest date we'll see any kit going in? I'd say July next year AT
THE EARLIEST and that's a tad optimistic now the select committee has
asked for an extension from early November to December.

Cheers,

Paul


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[Steve Phillips]

Post by Raimund Eimann
When Orcon was still offering their real 256kbits/s flatrate, I reached 70GB
per month quite regularly (~83GB is the maximum possible per month at this
speed). With 3.5Mbits/s or even more I would probably eat this volume for
breakfast and face a huge bill at the end of the month for exceeding the
cap...
Also: the 256kbits/s flatrate only cost $49.95/month (later only if you
decided to join their tolls, otherwise $59.95), that's considerably less
$/GB.
Hmm, seems nothing is around then. Currently I'm swapping accounts once per
month with a friend who also has one of these Orcon 40GB/256k plans. He's a
very light user, so I'm still getting close to the 70GB mark without extra
cost.

You sound like you want a fast (say, 10mbps) link, that's reasonably
reliable and completely flat rate.

Why not go for a GGIS/Telstra/whatever CID connection ?

[Nick MacKechnie (thenet)]

Hi All,

What exactly does fullspeed/fullspeed plan actually mean? What are the
maximums assuming close proximity to exchanges etc? Is there a line test
via telecom that you can see what your maximum speeds are up/downstream?


Cheers,

Nick.



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@unixathome.org [mailto:owner-***@unixathome.org] On
Behalf Of Lucas Young
Sent: Thursday, 26 October 2006 12:13 p.m.
To: ADSL
Subject: Re: Broadband unleashed...

I'm liking Orcon's offering - I was on the 3.5/512 plan with a 60GB cap
for $160/mth, I'm upgrading to the fullspeed/fullspeed plan with 100GB
for $180, and that's going to keep me happy for a long time - I remember
on a big month, downloading TV shows and movies, I might hit 60GB max, I
cant imagine I'd hit 100GB very easily even with the extra speed.

cheers

Lucas

Post by Raimund Eimann
Hi,
the 26th of October is here and... as had to be expected, it's all hot
air...
speed improvements instead of volume improvements.

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[s***@sig.net.nz]

For getting an estimate of your downstream speed
http://212.23.23.177/calc.htm

This is also a good article (1 of 3)
http://10layers.com/2006/09/full-speed-adsl-part-1/

Cheers
--

Post by Nick MacKechnie (thenet)
Hi All,
What exactly does fullspeed/fullspeed plan actually mean? What are the
maximums assuming close proximity to exchanges etc? Is there a line test
via telecom that you can see what your maximum speeds are up/downstream?
Cheers,
Nick.
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Lucas Young
Sent: Thursday, 26 October 2006 12:13 p.m.
To: ADSL
Subject: Re: Broadband unleashed...
I'm liking Orcon's offering - I was on the 3.5/512 plan with a 60GB cap
for $160/mth, I'm upgrading to the fullspeed/fullspeed plan with 100GB
for $180, and that's going to keep me happy for a long time - I remember
on a big month, downloading TV shows and movies, I might hit 60GB max, I
cant imagine I'd hit 100GB very easily even with the extra speed.
cheers
Lucas

Post by Raimund Eimann
Hi,
the 26th of October is here and... as had to be expected, it's all hot
air...
speed improvements instead of volume improvements.

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[LEE Tet Yoon]

Post by Lucas Young
I'm liking Orcon's offering - I was on the 3.5/512 plan with a 60GB
cap for $160/mth, I'm upgrading to the fullspeed/fullspeed plan with
100GB for $180, and that's going to keep me happy for a long time - I
remember on a big month, downloading TV shows and movies, I might hit
60GB max, I cant imagine I'd hit 100GB very easily even with the
extra speed.

I'm with Ihug and have 40+40gb (peak+offpeak) for $90/month (with Ihug tolls). Unfortunately this plan is no longer offered but I'm still grandfathered. It does mean I only get 2 mbps down and 128k up. The down actually isn't too bad but the up can get bit annoying. However it's better then paying twice the cost or whatever.

The peak/offpeak issue on Ihug's old plans seems to work okay for me. You have to be a bit more careful but as I have a dedicated download computer it's easy to limit stuff during peak times. My preferred P2P client is eMule which works best when it's permanently connected anyway and I've found it actually still performs quite well when you limit download speed at peak time.

Telecom/Xtra's new pseudo unlimited plan doesn't actually seem to bad relatively, at least from the way it's presented. The L7 limiting of P2P might be a bit annoying but it depends how often it occurs and to what level. Since you wouldn't use P2P much at their peak time of 4pm-12am due to the 700mb limit if it predominantly occurs then then it won't be a problem IMHO. However the 700mb limit during peak times is a pretty low and could get to be a drag. With careful management it may work but this could be annoying. The primary problem IMHO won't be with P2P but more normal stuff (at least for me since I don't mind scheduling P2P at offpeak times since it tends to be stuff you don't want instantaneously anyway). They're supposed to give you a warning once but it's not clear how often this occurs. Do you get 1 day leeway every week? Every month? It would be far better IMHO if they gave li
ke a 5gb limit/week during peak times rather then a 700mb/day. I guess this could mean mo!
re pro
blems during weekends and holidays though. Of course, Telecom may decide to expand their fair use to include offpeak time limits and perhaps their P2P limiting is going to be more severe then it sounds so it's still a bit risky.

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[Andrew Hooper]

I just did a test from our wireless ISP that covers Botany and the
surrounding area, using the www.consumerspeedtest.org.nz we got the
following speeds.

Download Speed: 1808 kbps (225KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 1100 kbps (137.5KB/sec transfer rate)

Is this comparative to a 256/128k jetstream connection?

The bonus is that its flat rate and we don't get charged for excess bandwith
but then the 256/128k jetstream connections seem to be the same so I'm
wondering if it's worth moving to one of them



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[Hadley Rich]

Post by Andrew Hooper
I just did a test from our wireless ISP that covers Botany and the
surrounding area, using the www.consumerspeedtest.org.nz we got the
following speeds.
Download Speed: 1808 kbps (225KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 1100 kbps (137.5KB/sec transfer rate)
Is this comparative to a 256/128k jetstream connection?

Definitely not!

Download Speed: 2229 kbps (278.6 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 474 kbps (59.3 KB/sec transfer rate)

That's from a 3.5/512MB Ihug plan which I pay $80 for (it's been grandfathered
just now). I believe that my speed is quite decent for an ADSL connection too
i.e a lot of people are getting far worse speeds on the same type of plan.

By the sounds of it you are better off staying on your wireless.

Post by Andrew Hooper
The bonus is that its flat rate and we don't get charged for excess
bandwith but then the 256/128k jetstream connections seem to be the same so
I'm wondering if it's worth moving to one of them

[paul warner]

Post by Andrew Hooper
I just did a test from our wireless ISP that covers Botany and the
surrounding area, using the www.consumerspeedtest.org.nz we got the
following speeds.

Tried to access this one but get

" Broadband speedtest
Sorry - we've temporarily removed the Consumer broadband speedtest.
Thanks to all those who took the test.


We are hoping to have a new, improved version of the speedtest available soon."

Maybe too many people testing it so they took it down..


Regards,

Paul Warner

***@bigfoot.com

DVD spelt backwards is DVD



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[Gordon J Milne]

Hi!

Well, it looks like my "unleashed" experience started last night
(2006.10.27) at around 22.15 when my ADSL link dropped out and would not
reconnect.

The router was trying to connect but the connection was not coming up
due to "LCP no response". I strongly suspected that Telecom/Xtra were
playing around at the far end and screwing things up in the process.

I contacted the XTRA Boradband Helpdesk and got the usual palming off.
They walked me through the standard script:

+ reboot the router, or as they phrase it, "unplug the modem and leave
it switched off for 10 seconds, then plug it back in".
- Guess what, same problem

+ then they check my username for this phone line.
- looks ok

+ next they look at "something" to see who is currently logged in
- this does not look good. apparently someone else is currently logged
on my line. this is why I can't log in.

+ you appear to be using the wrong login
- no i am not. it is the same one that has been in this router for the
last 18 months. i check anyway. the details are correct but the support
"analyst" has now decided that

+ yes, your login details are wrong, you will need to reset your modem
to its factory settings to get things working
- i don't think so. it has updated firmware and has worked without
failure for the last 18 months. nothing has changed here. what has
changed at your end? Could this have anything to do with your broadband
upgrading?

+ no sir, it isn't that. the problem lies at your end. i have told you
that we need to reset you modem to its factory setup.
- well, it does not look like that to me. it seems to me that the only
variable we have here is the "upgrading" of the network. i do not
believe it is my equipment. i believe it is your equipment. how can
someone log in with a different name of my line anyway? I am on my
physical line. how can this happen

[some small amount of silence]

+ we need to reset your modem
- no we do not. what we need to do is fix the problem at your end.

+ there is no problem at this end
- that is just ... wait a sec ... well, would you believe it. it has
logged in now.

+ it's working?
- yes it is ... thanks ... bye

That conversation is somewhat abbreviated since it actually took 20
minutes on the phone plus another 6 waiting to speak to a human.

I am pretty sure that I was talking to an offshore call centre. The
voice was definitely non-kiwi but the English was very good, so i
suspect somewhere in India. I was also pretty sure that I heard someone
else in the background that I spoke to last time; another
Indian-accented English speaking voice.

Isn't it amazing how Telecom, a "communications" company is unable to
communicate with its own customers and has to have some overseas company
do that for them?

Now, down to brass tacks with regard to speed.

Prior to last night, I was able to regularly get 1.8Mbps download and
160-200kbps upload.

This morning, I see download speeds as low as 80kbps. The highest was
1.2Mbps. The average seems to be around 800kbps. I'm not even getting 1Mbps.

And upload speeds are currently a disgrace. The best I got was 130kbps;
however, 90kbps seems to be the average.

I used NZDSL's Speedtest page
(http://www.nzdsl.co.nz/module-Speedtest.phtml). I have used it for the
last 6 months and trust it to do a good job.

This "upgrade" looks a lot more like a downgrade.

My router is saying that the line is set to 4.1Mbps up and 160kbps down.
Yes, I have rebooted my router (last night, remember) and all I see is a
vastly more crappy service today.

Yes, I know that Saturday morning is not the best of time to do speed
measurements but this is getting silly. Not only are XTRA/TNZ
downgrading me from my 10GB/2Mbps/192kbps plan to the Go Large plan
(infinite usage, infinite download speed but only 128kbps upload); they
are reducing my service and only giving me a 10 buck payback for doing so.

Frankly, these crappy speeds would tend to indicate that XTRA/TNZ IP
network is severely congested and woefully under specified in terms of
bandwidth provision and allocation.

That and TNZ's dropping of MessageLine is making me look to others for
both my analogue and (now) digital calling. How the hell can giving less
and charging more be called better?

Regards,

Gordon J Milne

p.s. I am also getting lots of timeouts whilst connecting to
pop.gmail.com this morning. This is usually a solid-as-a-rock service
but it seems flakey as hell this morning. What the hell are they doing @
XTRA HQ these days. Just counting the money? Don't they realise they
have to "work" for it as well?

p.p.s. Has anyone actually been abler to talk to a real XTRA network
engineer/specialist in recent times or is everyone being routed offshore
to some call centre?

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[Mark Foster]

I am pretty sure that I was talking to an offshore call centre. The voice was
definitely non-kiwi but the English was very good, so i suspect somewhere in
India. I was also pretty sure that I heard someone else in the background
that I spoke to last time; another Indian-accented English speaking voice.

Xtra's Helpdesk is (was?) outsourced to Teletech Ltd, based in Newmarket.
They do hire a lot of people from India and the surrounding countries, but
they are NZ based.

Teletech have lost the support contract, I understand the changes involve
broadband support being retained by Telecom staff and Dialup/Email being
outsourced, possibly overseas. Its been a while since I was on the
inside, as it were, but I've not yet seen any indication that broadband
would be outsourced. (Among other things, the fact that DSL works
differently in different parts of the world will make that an interesting
concept, should it ever happen.)

p.p.s. Has anyone actually been abler to talk to a real XTRA network
engineer/specialist in recent times or is everyone being routed offshore to
some call centre?

They have a number of Tech Support tiers, including relatively clooful
Broadband support and another team dedicated to their 'Business' products
(everything except dialup, broadband and email fundamentals, basically.

So in their defence, I would say your attitude is slightly pessimistic...

Mark.


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[Gordon J Milne]

Post by Mark Foster
Xtra's Helpdesk is (was?) outsourced to Teletech Ltd, based in
Newmarket. They do hire a lot of people from India and the surrounding
countries, but they are NZ based.

Ok, I was wide of the mark by several thousand km. Mind you they still
seem to follow the preprepared script approach but I cannot really
expect more for 60 bucks a months, can I?

Post by Mark Foster
Teletech have lost the support contract, I understand the changes
involve broadband support being retained by Telecom staff and
Dialup/Email being outsourced, possibly overseas. Its been a while
since I was on the inside, as it were, but I've not yet seen any
indication that broadband would be outsourced. (Among other things, the
fact that DSL works differently in different parts of the world will
make that an interesting concept, should it ever happen.)

Does NZ have a peculiar variant of ADSL compared to other countries that
costs us, or the ISPs, more to support?

Post by Mark Foster

Post by Gordon J Milne
p.p.s. Has anyone actually been abler to talk to a real XTRA network
engineer/specialist in recent times or is everyone being routed
offshore to some call centre?

They have a number of Tech Support tiers, including relatively clooful
Broadband support and another team dedicated to their 'Business'
products (everything except dialup, broadband and email fundamentals,
basically.

And the basic rule is that I am not paying them anywhere near enough to
be able to access any of the clueful people in those support tiers. :-)

Post by Mark Foster
So in their defence, I would say your attitude is slightly pessimistic...

I agree. It is. I have obviously been with them too long. I would love
to see if the other side of the fence is any greener but I have my
doubts. I also fear several days during the service switchover. I would
love to think I could go out to work in the morning and find the
switchover done by the time I returned in the evening.

I would love it ... but I doubt that it would work like that.

Regards,

Gordon
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[Gordon Milne]

Wow, that is incredible. I have heard so may scare stories I have
steered clear of switching.

Maybe that is the idea ... spread a few rumours leading to ... fear,
uncertainty, doubt.

It usually only takes a day now, and the actual downtime while they shift
you to your new ISP is generally a few minutes if that.
-Scott
-----Original Message-----
Of Gordon J Milne
Sent: Sunday, 29 October 2006 5:29 p.m.
Subject: Re: Broadband unleashed...
I agree. It is. I have obviously been with them too long. I would love
to see if the other side of the fence is any greener but I have my
doubts. I also fear several days during the service switchover. I would
love to think I could go out to work in the morning and find the
switchover done by the time I returned in the evening.
I would love it ... but I doubt that it would work like that.

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[t***@clad.co.nz]

Last time I had to have a change made I ended up without an ADSL
connection for seven days. This was in August this year.

Post by Gordon Milne
Wow, that is incredible. I have heard so may scare stories I have
steered clear of switching.
Maybe that is the idea ... spread a few rumours leading to ... fear,
uncertainty, doubt.

It usually only takes a day now, and the actual downtime while they shift
you to your new ISP is generally a few minutes if that.

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[noel]

moved to the new max/max link and I seem to be getting far lower speeds on
my adsl tests

before the swap over I tested my link on the nzdsl .co .nz site and got

3165 kbps/ 471 kbps ( orcon link 3.5mb / 512 kb)

my test on max/ max 861 kbps / 560 kbps (orcon max/max) my router says the
link is at data rate of 7616 kbps / 800 kbps

any one else with the same problem?

from Noel

----- Original Message -----
From: <***@clad.co.nz>
Cc: <***@lists.unixathome.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: Broadband unleashed...

Post by t***@clad.co.nz
Last time I had to have a change made I ended up without an ADSL
connection for seven days. This was in August this year.

Post by Gordon Milne
Wow, that is incredible. I have heard so may scare stories I have
steered clear of switching.
Maybe that is the idea ... spread a few rumours leading to ... fear,
uncertainty, doubt.

It usually only takes a day now, and the actual downtime while they shift
you to your new ISP is generally a few minutes if that.

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
27/10/2006

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[Craig Whitmore]

Post by Andrew Hooper
I just did a test from our wireless ISP that covers Botany and the
surrounding area, using the www.consumerspeedtest.org.nz we got the
following speeds.

Umm from www.consumerspeedtest.org.nz (its been like this for a long while
since I _guess_ they didn't have enough BW to supply accurate readings for
people)

"Sorry - we've temporarily removed the Consumer broadband speedtest. Thanks
to all those who took the test."

Post by Andrew Hooper
The bonus is that its flat rate and we don't get charged for excess bandwith
but then the 256/128k jetstream connections seem to be the same so I'm
wondering if it's worth moving to one of them

Arn't you trying to advertise your own Wireless Company Andrew?

BTW: Yesterday nzdsl.co.nz got ~10000 speedtests done on it from NZers
(Compared to ~3000 usually per day). I guess people can't wait for the
higher speeds.

Thanks
Craig

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[LEE Tet Yoon]

Post by Andrew Hooper
I just did a test from our wireless ISP that covers Botany and the
surrounding area, using the www.consumerspeedtest.org.nz we got the
following speeds.
Download Speed: 1808 kbps (225KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 1100 kbps (137.5KB/sec transfer rate)
Is this comparative to a 256/128k jetstream connection?
The bonus is that its flat rate and we don't get charged for excess bandwith
but then the 256/128k jetstream connections seem to be the same so I'm
wondering if it's worth moving to one of them

Are you on NZ wireless? If so, you should try a international speed test as well. Your international afaik is limited to 256k down. http://www.gasp.co.nz/Site/Products/Residential.aspx. Unfortunately, given the rather small number of NZ mirrors for stuff, a fast national connection is not going to help that much for most users.

On the other hand a DSL user could quite potentially get close to local speeds at off peak times on international sites.

Cheers

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[Dave - Dave.net.nz]

you would have to move away from DSL in it's current form, Telecom still
charge ISPs when users go over the 5GB mark from memory, so I guess you
could try getting a fibre connection or wireless of some sort.

Hell, why not setup your own and try to make money offering it if you
think there is a business case to support it, but errr, good luck with
finding that business case.

Post by Raimund Eimann
Hi,
the 26th of October is here and... as had to be expected, it's all hot
air... speed improvements instead of volume improvements. Honestly, who
cares whether the speed is 3.5MBits/s or ~5-6MBits/s if there's no volume
allowance to make any reasonable use of these speeds?
I am interested in a real flatrate plan that none of the major broadband
players in New Zealand seems to offer anymore. I'm not talking about these
nonsense "Flatrates" which suffer from "Fair use policies" and the likes.
Is there someone here who is aware of any real flatrate plans (these
things that people can use for evil P2P-terrorism...)? If someone could
point me to some (probably minor) ISP that still offers such things, I'd
appreciate it.
Thanks,
Raimund
A chat has nine lives.
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[Ian Batterbee]

Post by Gordon J Milne
Well, it looks like my "unleashed" experience started last night
(2006.10.27) at around 22.15 when my ADSL link dropped out and would not
reconnect.

Sounds like the radius servers were overloaded when they reset
everyone's connections.. only thing you can do for that is
wait...wait..wait.

I'm not surprised that the helpdesk tried to get you to change your
settings to fix it, when the problem was a timeout at their end.. I
doubt they have any knowledge of the back-end happenings of the network.


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