Telecom surepticiously has changed Jetstart +

[Joel Wiramu Pauling]

Hi all,

Telecom seems to have changed the jetstart + plan. After publicly saying
they would "Grandfather" and keep existing customers "as is" in
computerworld earlier this year, at the 2mbit 192kps up rate. They have
changed the plan to only be 128kbit up. I have confirmed this with
another user of the plan.

His contact with Telecom seems to be that they are defending the move as
"Keeping in Compliance" with the com com agreement.

I have contacted Consumer Affairs about this, as I believe it is in
breach of the Consumer Gurantees Act as well as the Fair Trading act (in
that it is an issue of measure and weight).

I don't know about others, but I would not have switched to ADSL from
cable knowing that the upstream would shrink. I rely on that extra
64kbit for visitors to my site for both research and non profit use.

I would be interested to hear from others on the plan, who are willing
to make a submission to the Consumer affairs people.

Evidence of discussions with Telecom and your ISP over the matter is
useful.

Kind regards

Joel W

[Mark Foster]

Just confirm for me that you're not talking about the plan listed here:

http://www.telecom-media.co.nz/releases_detail.asp?id=3068&page=1&pagesize=10&filtertext=Jetstream+Starter&m1=1&y1=1996&m2=8&y2=2005&filter=filter

(sorry for the long link)

Mark.

Post by Joel Wiramu Pauling
Hi all,
Telecom seems to have changed the jetstart + plan. After publicly saying
they would "Grandfather" and keep existing customers "as is" in
computerworld earlier this year, at the 2mbit 192kps up rate. They have
changed the plan to only be 128kbit up. I have confirmed this with
another user of the plan.
His contact with Telecom seems to be that they are defending the move as
"Keeping in Compliance" with the com com agreement.
I have contacted Consumer Affairs about this, as I believe it is in
breach of the Consumer Gurantees Act as well as the Fair Trading act (in
that it is an issue of measure and weight).
I don't know about others, but I would not have switched to ADSL from
cable knowing that the upstream would shrink. I rely on that extra
64kbit for visitors to my site for both research and non profit use.
I would be interested to hear from others on the plan, who are willing
to make a submission to the Consumer affairs people.
Evidence of discussions with Telecom and your ISP over the matter is
useful.
Kind regards
Joel W
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see http://unixathome.org/adsl/ for archives, FAQ,
and various documents.
with "unsubscribe adsl" in the body of the message

[Gordon J Milne]

Hi Joel,

I am interested in taking this further and would like to join you in
your action. If you have a pro-forma letter that I can use? Or do I have
to hand-craft my own.

I found it hard enough
(http://gordondownunder.blogspot.com/2004/12/jetstream-upgrade-debacle.html)
getting upgraded to the Jetstream Plus plan from the Jetstream Surf 3GB
plan that the downgrade to 128kbps upstream from 192kbps was
particularly insulting. Moreover, by upgrading to the 10GB/2Mbps/192kbps
plan, I was purchasing a product from Telecom with a well defined
specification set. It was Telecom who decided to downgrade my connection
so they could get out of hot water with the government. A
customer-oriented organisation should have compensated their customers
(by reducing the cost of the service by $10 to $20) for taking this
'high-handed' action.

Unfortunately, my evidence of discussion with Telecom is my previous
blog entry. It could be argued that my switch to the Plus plan was an
attempt to prevent excess charges. I would argue, however, that
Telecom's Jetstream plan upgrades announced on October 24th 2004 raised
customer expectations in the Jetstream service and, quite clearly,
identified the speeds associated with the service plans. I have no doubt
that their Terms and Conditions allow them to do this but that does not
make what they did acceptable when they are the monopoly supplier in the
market.

Regards,

Gordon

Post by Mark Foster
http://www.telecom-media.co.nz/releases_detail.asp?id=3068&page=1&pagesize=10&filtertext=Jetstream+Starter&m1=1&y1=1996&m2=8&y2=2005&filter=filter
(sorry for the long link)
Mark.

Post by Joel Wiramu Pauling
Hi all,
Telecom seems to have changed the jetstart + plan. After publicly saying
they would "Grandfather" and keep existing customers "as is" in
computerworld earlier this year, at the 2mbit 192kps up rate. They have
changed the plan to only be 128kbit up. I have confirmed this with
another user of the plan.
His contact with Telecom seems to be that they are defending the move as
"Keeping in Compliance" with the com com agreement.
I have contacted Consumer Affairs about this, as I believe it is in
breach of the Consumer Gurantees Act as well as the Fair Trading act (in
that it is an issue of measure and weight).
I don't know about others, but I would not have switched to ADSL from
cable knowing that the upstream would shrink. I rely on that extra
64kbit for visitors to my site for both research and non profit use.
I would be interested to hear from others on the plan, who are willing
to make a submission to the Consumer affairs people.
Evidence of discussions with Telecom and your ISP over the matter is
useful.
Kind regards
Joel W
--
This message is part of the NZ ADSL mailing list.
see http://unixathome.org/adsl/ for archives, FAQ,
and various documents.
with "unsubscribe adsl" in the body of the message

[Steve Phillips]

a) this happened 6 odd months ago
b) this was an edict that came down from the government (the commerce
commission) not something telecom wanted to do. If you dont like the fact
that the governemnt regulated a monopoly then please, vote to keep the
monopoly.

sheesh, dead issue, please move on.
--
Steve.

Post by Gordon J Milne
Hi Joel,
I am interested in taking this further and would like to join you in your
action. If you have a pro-forma letter that I can use? Or do I have to
hand-craft my own.
I found it hard enough
(http://gordondownunder.blogspot.com/2004/12/jetstream-upgrade-debacle.html)
getting upgraded to the Jetstream Plus plan from the Jetstream Surf 3GB plan
that the downgrade to 128kbps upstream from 192kbps was particularly
insulting. Moreover, by upgrading to the 10GB/2Mbps/192kbps plan, I was
purchasing a product from Telecom with a well defined specification set. It
was Telecom who decided to downgrade my connection so they could get out of
hot water with the government. A customer-oriented organisation should have
compensated their customers (by reducing the cost of the service by $10 to
$20) for taking this 'high-handed' action.
Unfortunately, my evidence of discussion with Telecom is my previous blog
entry. It could be argued that my switch to the Plus plan was an attempt to
prevent excess charges. I would argue, however, that Telecom's Jetstream plan
upgrades announced on October 24th 2004 raised customer expectations in the
Jetstream service and, quite clearly, identified the speeds associated with
the service plans. I have no doubt that their Terms and Conditions allow them
to do this but that does not make what they did acceptable when they are the
monopoly supplier in the market.
Regards,
Gordon

Post by Mark Foster
http://www.telecom-media.co.nz/releases_detail.asp?id=3068&page=1&pagesize=10&filtertext=Jetstream+Starter&m1=1&y1=1996&m2=8&y2=2005&filter=filter
(sorry for the long link)
Mark.

Post by Joel Wiramu Pauling
Hi all,
Telecom seems to have changed the jetstart + plan. After publicly saying
they would "Grandfather" and keep existing customers "as is" in
computerworld earlier this year, at the 2mbit 192kps up rate. They have
changed the plan to only be 128kbit up. I have confirmed this with
another user of the plan.
His contact with Telecom seems to be that they are defending the move as
"Keeping in Compliance" with the com com agreement.
I have contacted Consumer Affairs about this, as I believe it is in
breach of the Consumer Gurantees Act as well as the Fair Trading act (in
that it is an issue of measure and weight).
I don't know about others, but I would not have switched to ADSL from
cable knowing that the upstream would shrink. I rely on that extra
64kbit for visitors to my site for both research and non profit use.
I would be interested to hear from others on the plan, who are willing
to make a submission to the Consumer affairs people.
Evidence of discussions with Telecom and your ISP over the matter is
useful.
Kind regards
Joel W
--
This message is part of the NZ ADSL mailing list.
see http://unixathome.org/adsl/ for archives, FAQ,
and various documents.
with "unsubscribe adsl" in the body of the message

-- This message is part of the NZ ADSL mailing list. see
http://unixathome.org/adsl/ for archives, FAQ, and various documents. To
adsl" in the body of the message

[Juha Saarinen]

Post by Steve Phillips
a) this happened 6 odd months ago
b) this was an edict that came down from the government (the commerce
commission) not something telecom wanted to do. If you dont like the
fact that the governemnt regulated a monopoly then please, vote to keep
the monopoly.

At this point everyone should be aware that there is in fact *no*
regulated "bitstream" service in New Zealand. There will likely be one
after the Commerce Commission has finished deliberating over
TelstraClear's application for one, but for now, there is only the
commercial service from Telecom.

The commercial service is not subject to the Commerce Commission's
determination on the regulated service.

The two do not have to be equivalent at all. Telecom is free to offer
whatever it likes for the commercial service, and it is disingenuous to
say otherwise.

Post by Steve Phillips
sheesh, dead issue, please move on.

No, it's not dead but it is full of misunderstandings thanks to an
unnecessarily convoluted regulatory process. The government and Commerce
Commission hasn't done a good job here.

[Steve Withers]

Post by Steve Phillips
a) this happened 6 odd months ago
b) this was an edict that came down from the government (the commerce
commission) not something telecom wanted to do. If you dont like the fact
that the governemnt regulated a monopoly then please, vote to keep the
monopoly.
sheesh, dead issue, please move on.

You appear not to understand what actually happened.....There was no
government edict.

This issue is far from dead.

Juha has explained it very well in another note.

Steve

[LEE Tet Yoon]

Post by Steve Phillips
a) this happened 6 odd months ago
b) this was an edict that came down from the government (the commerce commission) not something telecom wanted to do. If you dont like the fact that the governemnt regulated a monopoly then please, vote to keep the monopoly.
sheesh, dead issue, please move on.

Why I would agree this issue probably isn't going to go anywhere, Telecom launched their JetStream Plus 2mbit/192k plan well after the law was already in place. The only thing that may have changed was maybe the CC made it clear they were violating the law by offering 192k whereas UBS was restricted to 128k? Did this occur? I'm still quite confused whether Telecom was actually be violating the law/requirements by offering 192k in their retail (and wholesale offerings) when they can only offer 128k for UBS or whether it's more of an operational decision by them to simplify matters etc.

[Juha Saarinen]

Post by LEE Tet Yoon
The only thing that may have changed was
maybe the CC made it clear they were violating the law by offering
192k whereas UBS was restricted to 128k? Did this occur? I'm still
quite confused whether Telecom was actually be violating the
law/requirements by offering 192k in their retail (and wholesale
offerings) when they can only offer 128k for UBS or whether it's more
of an operational decision by them to simplify matters etc.

No; as I mentioned in my earlier message, Telecom's commercial service
is *not* bound by the Commerce Commission's determination. It should in
fact not be called "UBS" as that refers to the regulated service, which
currently does not exist.

[Paul Quinlan]

Like Mark, Joel are you sure you are not confused.

Jestart was supposed to be pulled out late last year, but this was delayed,
and I believe they have only recently announced that this is fonially going
to happen.

I have not heard anything about us users who signed up to the faster plans
before the decision by Telecom to keep the existing 192kps customers as-is.

However, according to my ISP, this is all academic now anyway. A week ago,
I received a letter from Maxnet telling me that the Jetstream Partnering
Programme (JPP) is being withdrawn by Telecom at the end of August, so there
goes 192kps up rate, fullstop! I have to switch across to a UBS plan, or
get my Jetstream service cut-off by Telecom at the end of the month. No
alternative to UBS provided.

Disadvantage:
128k upload!!!

Advantages:
Lower cost ($64.95 from Maxnet, instead of $59.95 Telecom and $10.00 Maxnet,
although the letter from Maxnet quotes $69.95, but is wrong as their website
says $64.95 and I have confirmed the error).
10Gb limit is only on International downloads, not uploads and not on
National.

Rgds

Paul Quinlan



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@unixathome.org [mailto:owner-***@unixathome.org] On Behalf
Of Mark Foster
Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2005 12:13 p.m.
To: Joel Wiramu Pauling
Cc: adslNZ
Subject: Re: Telecom surepticiously has changed Jetstart +


Just confirm for me that you're not talking about the plan listed here:

http://www.telecom-media.co.nz/releases_detail.asp?id=3068&page=1&pagesize=1
0&filtertext=Jetstream+Starter&m1=1&y1=1996&m2=8&y2=2005&filter=filter

(sorry for the long link)

Mark.

Post by Joel Wiramu Pauling
Hi all,
Telecom seems to have changed the jetstart + plan. After publicly
saying they would "Grandfather" and keep existing customers "as is" in
computerworld earlier this year, at the 2mbit 192kps up rate. They
have changed the plan to only be 128kbit up. I have confirmed this
with another user of the plan.
His contact with Telecom seems to be that they are defending the move
as "Keeping in Compliance" with the com com agreement.
I have contacted Consumer Affairs about this, as I believe it is in
breach of the Consumer Gurantees Act as well as the Fair Trading act
(in that it is an issue of measure and weight).
I don't know about others, but I would not have switched to ADSL from
cable knowing that the upstream would shrink. I rely on that extra
64kbit for visitors to my site for both research and non profit use.
I would be interested to hear from others on the plan, who are willing
to make a submission to the Consumer affairs people.
Evidence of discussions with Telecom and your ISP over the matter is
useful.
Kind regards
Joel W
--
This message is part of the NZ ADSL mailing list.
see http://unixathome.org/adsl/ for archives, FAQ,
and various documents.
with "unsubscribe adsl" in the body of the message

--
This message is part of the NZ ADSL mailing list.
see http://unixathome.org/adsl/ for archives, FAQ,
and various documents.
To unsubscribe: send mail to ***@lists.unixathome.org
with "unsubscribe adsl" in the body of the message

[LEE Tet Yoon]

Post by Paul Quinlan
Like Mark, Joel are you sure you are not confused.
Jestart was supposed to be pulled out late last year, but this was delayed,
and I believe they have only recently announced that this is fonially going
to happen.
I have not heard anything about us users who signed up to the faster plans
before the decision by Telecom to keep the existing 192kps customers as-is.
However, according to my ISP, this is all academic now anyway. A week ago,
I received a letter from Maxnet telling me that the Jetstream Partnering
Programme (JPP) is being withdrawn by Telecom at the end of August, so there
goes 192kps up rate, fullstop! I have to switch across to a UBS plan, or
get my Jetstream service cut-off by Telecom at the end of the month. No
alternative to UBS provided.

Hmm this is interesting, I wonder if it means Joel has really had his 192k upload reduced to 128k or he has simply been switched from JS+ to UBS by his ISP without his ISP telling him about the change?

He did not mention what his ISP is although all this talk about Telecom would suggest he is using Xtra which would mean the above is not the case