ADSL List open relay

[Mikey]

WOW, this sucks!

Not only does Dan Langille insist on keeping all the email addresses in the
archives in a spam harvestable form, but he is also allowing his server to
operate an open relay, so anyone from any email address can spam the list!

[Mark Foster]

Post by Mikey
WOW, this sucks!
Not only does Dan Langille insist on keeping all the email addresses in
the archives in a spam harvestable form, but he is also allowing his
server to operate an open relay, so anyone from any email address can
spam the list!

Wow, something sucks!

Only I think you missed the point of what an 'Open Mail Relay' is.

If you subscribe to this list you automatically agree to receive
messages directed at the list address. Thus you can _unsubscribe_.

Whilst I agree that subscriber-only might be wise in this day and age
that in itself opens another can of worms.

Implimenting sub-only means screwing around with people who subscribe
using a different address to that which they post with, etc.

So erm, yeah, you might like to perhaps direct any feedback you have
about Dan and the way he runs this list, _to Dan_, instead of bothering
the rest of us with it.

Cheers
Mark.

[Gordon Milne]

A mail server that is operating as an open relay allows connections to
its SMTP port that permit the delivery to user on another domain.

If system A is an open relay, system B can connect to its SMTP port
and ask it to deliver mail to domains C, D, E, etc.

The majority of SMTP systems are (these days) configured so that they
will only deliver e-mail to people within their domain. Open relays
permit the delivery of all e-mail directed at them including that for
other domains. They are perfect (therefore) for those in the business
of generating SPAM since they allow the spammer to neatly cover their
tracks and have someone else's system deal with the load impoised by
their bulk mailings.

This is why open relays are considered BAD.

Post by Mark Foster

Post by Mikey
WOW, this sucks!
Not only does Dan Langille insist on keeping all the email addresses in
the archives in a spam harvestable form, but he is also allowing his
server to operate an open relay, so anyone from any email address can
spam the list!

Wow, something sucks!
Only I think you missed the point of what an 'Open Mail Relay' is.
If you subscribe to this list you automatically agree to receive
messages directed at the list address. Thus you can _unsubscribe_.
Whilst I agree that subscriber-only might be wise in this day and age
that in itself opens another can of worms.
Implimenting sub-only means screwing around with people who subscribe
using a different address to that which they post with, etc.
So erm, yeah, you might like to perhaps direct any feedback you have
about Dan and the way he runs this list, _to Dan_, instead of bothering
the rest of us with it.
Cheers
Mark.

[Mikey]

My point being that the email address I am using to send this email is NOT
subscribed to the list....
ANYONE can send stuff to the list, subscribed or not.
If I am wrong about what it is called, who cares? It doesn't stop the fact
that anyone can send whatever they like to the list.....
it also means that you can't unsubscribe someone to stop them posting junk
if they are not subscribed in the first place

If you subscribe to the list, you subscribe to receive mail from other list
members, not anyone who wants to send you adverts for fake rolexes, low
interest mortgages, etc

[Nick Rout]

On Thu, 9 Jun 2005 15:00:25 +1200

Post by Mikey
My point being that the email address I am using to send this email is NOT
subscribed to the list....
ANYONE can send stuff to the list, subscribed or not.
If I am wrong about what it is called, who cares? It doesn't stop the fact
that anyone can send whatever they like to the list.....
it also means that you can't unsubscribe someone to stop them posting junk
if they are not subscribed in the first place
If you subscribe to the list, you subscribe to receive mail from other list
members, not anyone who wants to send you adverts for fake rolexes, low
interest mortgages, etc

*gasp* you might even get idiots posting html email

[Steve Phillips]

Post by Mikey
My point being that the email address I am using to send this email is NOT
subscribed to the list....
ANYONE can send stuff to the list, subscribed or not.
If I am wrong about what it is called, who cares? It doesn't stop the fact
that anyone can send whatever they like to the list.....

Can you please stop mudering people, and I know its not what its called
but who cares right ?

Please be growing up now. Either that or get off the intarwebnet, its
obviously beyond your capabilities.

[Juha Saarinen]

Post by Steve Phillips
Can you please stop mudering people, and I know its not what its called
but who cares right ?

I do.

Post by Steve Phillips
Please be growing up now. Either that or get off the intarwebnet, its
obviously beyond your capabilities.

Well, I was just spammed via the list so Mikey does have a point. It's
not the first time either.

[Steve Phillips]

Post by Steve Phillips
Please be growing up now. Either that or get off the intarwebnet, its
obviously beyond your capabilities.

Well, I was just spammed via the list so Mikey does have a point. It's not
the first time either.

I've had about 3-4 spams via the list over the past 5 years, compared to
my regular spam count thats pretty good...

sorry for not trimming the CC list but its juha, the speedo man. (if it
was paul, I'd make an effort)

[Juha Saarinen]

Post by Steve Phillips
I've had about 3-4 spams via the list over the past 5 years, compared to
my regular spam count thats pretty good...

I see, so you condone the list spamming.

Post by Steve Phillips
sorry for not trimming the CC list but its juha, the speedo man. (if it
was paul, I'd make an effort)

That's just really sick.

[Russell Fulton]

Post by Mikey
My point being that the email address I am using to send this email is
NOT subscribed to the list....
ANYONE can send stuff to the list, subscribed or

So if you don't like it then get off the list. Simple.

I also emphatically agree with with Mark's comment that issues like this
should be raised with Dan in the first instance. It's *his* list that
*he* provides at *his* own expense for *your* use. Please do him the
courtesy of communicating with him directly instead of launching
broadside attacks in a public forum.

You sound like an ungrateful, whining adolescent, please take such
behaviour elsewhere, it does not belong on a technical mailing list.

There are good and valid reasons to have the list set up the way it is. I am
a moderator of one of the major computer security mailing lists
(***@lists.sans.org with many thousand of subscribers ) and that is
the we we run that list. This debate periodically arises and so far has
always been concluded in favour of of keeping the list open, even though
it increases the work of the moderators considerably.

Anyway where is the fire? Where is all the tons of spam flooding in
through the adsl list? I'm a great fan of solving problems as they
arise and not restricting everything because of some low level risks
particularly when the cost of the 'fix' is far from trivial.

If spam becomes a problem on the list then I am sure Dan will do
something to deal with it. He may close the list (i.e. make it subscriber only) or he may choose to
deal with it in some other way, that is his call. For all you know Dan
may already have the worlds best spam filter running to protect you from
such nasty stuff.

Within the university where our list server has over 1000 lists we use a
variety of strategies to deal with spam. Some lists are closed others
are open and some are moderated, all mail is checked for spam and
discarded if it fails and yes a trickle of spam does get through to some
lists but this is judged acceptable price for the utility of keeping
those lists open.

There is no right answer and no "best practise".

Russell
--
Russell Fulton, Information Security Officer, The University of Auckland
New Zealand

[Philip D'Ath]

I think Dan provides a great service.

As far as I am aware, this is an open list. Free for anyone to join and
use. It's not meant to be restricted.

Your point about spam harvestable format is perhaps fair - but nothing
is preventing you from posting messages where your address is not
harvestable. Ultimately this choice is up to you, not Dan.


I don't think this really has anything to do with ADSL, and it would
have been more appropriate to take it up with Dan directly first before
blasting the list.

Please don't post any replies to the list on this issue. I don't have
any further comment on this, so please don't email be back a reply.

________________________________

From: Mikey [mailto:***@azorah.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2005 2:22 p.m.
To: adsl-unixathome-org-***@lists.unixathome.org
Subject: ADSL List open relay


WOW, this sucks!

Not only does Dan Langille insist on keeping all the email addresses in
the archives in a spam harvestable form, but he is also allowing his
server to operate an open relay, so anyone from any email address can
spam the list!

[LEE Tet Yoon]

Post by Mikey
WOW, this sucks!
Not only does Dan Langille insist on keeping all the email addresses in the archives in a spam harvestable form, but he is also allowing his server to operate an open relay, so anyone from any email address can spam the list!

Kevin Hardie or Mikey or whatever your name is,

I'm not an expert but I don't think this fit's the normal definition of an 'open relay'. Yes it's 'open' but it will only 'relay' to people who subscribed to the ADSL list. If you don't like the fact that it's open, don't subscribe. Having said that, I do think nowadays it's a bad idea to leave it open but until and unless was start receiving spam, I don't really care personally.

If I remember correctly, previously, the normal lists/addresses were open. Then one sad day, we started receiving spam. Dan quickly moved to close the lists as had obviously become necessary. If he had not, I would have unsubscribed. End of story. I believe Dan pointed out at the time, the lists had been open since they started. I personally think it's better if lists such as this one are open but sadly, it just isn't possible nowadays.

So far, the worst problems we've had have been from away messages from people subscribed to the list not general spam

In this case, I'm guessing he made a mistake and didn't close the alternative address you used which will also send to the list. This was a mistake, but not a serious problem and should be easily fixable. The fact that you looked for a different address/hole and then send the above e-mail suggests to me that you have nothing better to do then to look for ways to make fun of Dan. If you were just looking for holes, you could simply e-mailed Dan after finding out the problem. Point being, get over it and get a life.

BTW, if you want to continue to discuss this, please keep it off list (I will ignore you in any case)

[Nigel L Wade]

Testing spam (can I ?)



________________________________

From: Mikey [mailto:***@azorah.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 9 June 2005 2:22 p.m.
To: adsl-unixathome-org-***@lists.unixathome.org
Subject: ADSL List open relay



WOW, this sucks!



Not only does Dan Langille insist on keeping all the email addresses in
the archives in a spam harvestable form, but he is also allowing his
server to operate an open relay, so anyone from any email address can
spam the list!




"This communication, including any attachments, is confidential.
If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read
it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not
copy or use any part of this communication or disclose
anything about it. Thank you. Please note that this
communication does not designate an information system for
the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002."

[Jonathan Pickard]

My point being that the email address I am using to send this email is NOT subscribed to the list....
ANYONE can send stuff to the list, subscribed or not.
If I am wrong about what it is called, who cares? It doesn't stop the fact that anyone can send whatever they like > to the list.....
it also means that you can't unsubscribe someone to stop them posting junk if they are not subscribed in the > > first place
If you subscribe to the list, you subscribe to receive mail from other list members, not anyone who wants to
send you adverts for fake rolexes, low interest mortgages, etc

We understand your point - what Mark was saying is that you should deal directly with _Dan_ on this and not spam the entire list with your "hi" mail and a rather personal attack on a public mailing list.

Stick to the topic - your post has nothing to do with ADSL or Unix at home

[Jonathan Pickard]

My point being that the email address I am using to send this email is NOT subscribed to the list....
ANYONE can send stuff to the list, subscribed or not.
If I am wrong about what it is called, who cares? It doesn't stop the fact that anyone can send whatever they like > to the list.....
it also means that you can't unsubscribe someone to stop them posting junk if they are not subscribed in the > > first place
If you subscribe to the list, you subscribe to receive mail from other list members, not anyone who wants to
send you adverts for fake rolexes, low interest mortgages, etc

We understand your point - what Mark was saying is that you should deal directly with _Dan_ on this and not spam the entire list with your "hi" mail and a rather personal attack on a public mailing list.

Stick to the topic - your post has nothing to do with ADSL or Unix at home