Anyone noticing general performance degradation lately

[Tony Paterson]

Hi,

Anyone else noticing longer latencies and general performance issues.

This started with our Wellington JetStream connection and now I suspect the same with our Auckland connection - not sure if its just us. Yes I have reported it for Wellington but now I am noticing it at home as well, so I am getting suspicious the problem might be bigger.

Cheers

[Chris McKay]

Things seemed very slow Thursday ...

Auckland/Orcon ISP

C

[Simon Cobb]

Yep - nothing scientific, but sites - both local and international -
seem WAY slower for the past couple of days (I'm a 2Mbps JetStream Plus
user in ChCh).

Cheers,

Simon

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@unixathome.org [mailto:owner-***@unixathome.org] On
Behalf Of Tony Paterson
Sent: Friday, 8 April 2005 5:03 a.m.
To: ADSL Mailing List (E-mail)
Subject: Anyone noticing general performance degradation lately

Hi,

Anyone else noticing longer latencies and general performance issues.

This started with our Wellington JetStream connection and now I suspect
the same with our Auckland connection - not sure if its just us. Yes I
have reported it for Wellington but now I am noticing it at home as
well, so I am getting suspicious the problem might be bigger.

Cheers

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[Sachiv Mehra]

I've noticed the same as well.

However connecting Via telstra clear results in lower ping times and
faster response. Also during peak tiems (8pmish) I can see my pings go
up and then fall straight back down at 11pm as traffic ebs off.

I've heard word from people in telstra/telecom that xtra's insides are
indeed extremely congested.

All this is AFIK and IMHO.

Rgds
Sachiv

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@unixathome.org [mailto:owner-***@unixathome.org] On
Behalf Of Simon Cobb
Sent: Friday, 8 April 2005 9:03 a.m.
To: Tony Paterson; ADSL Mailing List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: Anyone noticing general performance degradation lately

Yep - nothing scientific, but sites - both local and international -
seem WAY slower for the past couple of days (I'm a 2Mbps JetStream Plus
user in ChCh).

Cheers,

Simon

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@unixathome.org [mailto:owner-***@unixathome.org] On
Behalf Of Tony Paterson
Sent: Friday, 8 April 2005 5:03 a.m.
To: ADSL Mailing List (E-mail)
Subject: Anyone noticing general performance degradation lately

Hi,

Anyone else noticing longer latencies and general performance issues.

This started with our Wellington JetStream connection and now I suspect
the same with our Auckland connection - not sure if its just us. Yes I
have reported it for Wellington but now I am noticing it at home as
well, so I am getting suspicious the problem might be bigger.

Cheers

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[r***@xtra.co.nz]

I play erverquest and have noticed the ping time got from 250ms to 450ms. this started about 2 weeks ago. I'm with xtra and 2mb ADSL.

Roger

Date: 2005/04/08 Fri AM 09:29:05 GMT+12:00
Subject: RE: Anyone noticing general performance degradation lately
I've noticed the same as well.
However connecting Via telstra clear results in lower ping times and
faster response. Also during peak tiems (8pmish) I can see my pings go
up and then fall straight back down at 11pm as traffic ebs off.
I've heard word from people in telstra/telecom that xtra's insides are
indeed extremely congested.
All this is AFIK and IMHO.
Rgds
Sachiv
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Simon Cobb
Sent: Friday, 8 April 2005 9:03 a.m.
To: Tony Paterson; ADSL Mailing List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: Anyone noticing general performance degradation lately
Yep - nothing scientific, but sites - both local and international -
seem WAY slower for the past couple of days (I'm a 2Mbps JetStream Plus
user in ChCh).
Cheers,
Simon
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Tony Paterson
Sent: Friday, 8 April 2005 5:03 a.m.
To: ADSL Mailing List (E-mail)
Subject: Anyone noticing general performance degradation lately
Hi,
Anyone else noticing longer latencies and general performance issues.
This started with our Wellington JetStream connection and now I suspect
the same with our Auckland connection - not sure if its just us. Yes I
have reported it for Wellington but now I am noticing it at home as
well, so I am getting suspicious the problem might be bigger.
Cheers
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"unsubscribe adsl" in the body of the message
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[Bart Hanson]

Post by r***@xtra.co.nz
I play erverquest and have noticed the ping time got from 250ms to
450ms. this started about 2 weeks ago. I'm with xtra and 2mb ADSL.

I cannot believe that Telecoms the world over are not scared to death of
VoIP.
Skype is already freeing millions from the telecoms (wherever they are

located).
Billions of dollars of investment has been made and protection of the
monopoly is going to happen for sure.
So Latency is necessary? Yeah Right!

This from IDG:
http://s0.tx.co.nz/at/tep34i71488a4j35654s4c2031013t9f2n318264z

Bart Hanson

***@orcon.net.nz

[Matt Riddell]

Post by r***@xtra.co.nz
I play erverquest and have noticed the ping time got from 250ms to

450ms. this started about 2 weeks ago. I'm with xtra and 2mb ADSL.


I can confirm that playing CounterStrike is between 120ms and 500ms
(varies during a round) on Australian servers (with no network load at
my end).
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Matt Riddell
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Cheers,

Matt Riddell
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[Keith & Deby]

Playing Delta force on Aussie servers has been the same as usual...OGN
server is hosted at inet , Perth
Hitting there at 83 to 94ms Wed was unusual.... 97 to 103ms
The DNFCL server around the same plus 10ms

Xtra connection, 2meg
Speeds up and down are OK to

Have a Nice Day
Steps
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Riddell" <***@sineapps.com>
To: <***@lists.unixathome.org>
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: Anyone noticing general performance degradation lately

Post by Matt Riddell
I can confirm that playing CounterStrike is between 120ms and 500ms
(varies during a round) on Australian servers (with no network load at
my end).
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Matt Riddell
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Cheers,
Matt Riddell
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[w***@paradise.net.nz]

Has anyone done traceroutes to check where the latency is coming from?

I've heard rumours and whispers of a bunch of exchange gear falling over in
DSLAMs across AKL (and possibly nationwide). When one falls over load is
rebalanced across the remaining gear.. which could possibly explain load
related lag/shitty performance (ie, fine @ 3am, shit during business
hours/after work etc)

IF it is that you would probably see the increased latency right from your 1st
or 2nd hop after your router. If it is a cable issue later down the track
you'd probably only notice it much further down, around or past global gateway
(if you're an xtra customer).

But as I said those are 2nd in some cases 3rd hand rumours, so it could be all
lies.

Post by Keith & Deby
Playing Delta force on Aussie servers has been the same as usual...OGN
server is hosted at inet , Perth
Hitting there at 83 to 94ms Wed was unusual.... 97 to 103ms
The DNFCL server around the same plus 10ms
Xtra connection, 2meg
Speeds up and down are OK to
Have a Nice Day
Steps
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: Anyone noticing general performance degradation lately

Post by Matt Riddell
I can confirm that playing CounterStrike is between 120ms and 500ms
(varies during a round) on Australian servers (with no network load

at

Post by Matt Riddell
my end).
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Matt Riddell
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Cheers,
Matt Riddell
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[Mark Foster]

Post by w***@paradise.net.nz
Has anyone done traceroutes to check where the latency is coming from?
I've heard rumours and whispers of a bunch of exchange gear falling over in
DSLAMs across AKL (and possibly nationwide). When one falls over load is
rebalanced across the remaining gear.. which could possibly explain load
hours/after work etc)
IF it is that you would probably see the increased latency right from your 1st
or 2nd hop after your router. If it is a cable issue later down the track
you'd probably only notice it much further down, around or past global gateway
(if you're an xtra customer).
But as I said those are 2nd in some cases 3rd hand rumours, so it could be all
lies.

I've done checks with a tool called "MTR" (Matts Traceroute). It does a
traceroute and then pings each hop along the trace.

The problem starts immediately after my DSL router.

Experiencing it again this evening quite badly ...

Mark.

[Fran]

Post by Mark Foster

Post by w***@paradise.net.nz
Has anyone done traceroutes to check where the latency is coming from?
I've heard rumours and whispers of a bunch of exchange gear falling
over in DSLAMs across AKL (and possibly nationwide). When one falls
over load is rebalanced across the remaining gear.. which could
shit during business hours/after work etc)
IF it is that you would probably see the increased latency right from
your 1st or 2nd hop after your router. If it is a cable issue later
down the track you'd probably only notice it much further down, around
or past global gateway (if you're an xtra customer).
But as I said those are 2nd in some cases 3rd hand rumours, so it could
be all lies.

I've done checks with a tool called "MTR" (Matts Traceroute). It does a
traceroute and then pings each hop along the trace.
The problem starts immediately after my DSL router.
Experiencing it again this evening quite badly ...
Mark.

Mine seems to be within Global Gateway...

5 ge-0-3-0-6.akbr3.global-gateway.net.nz 40.894 ms
6 p1-3.sjbr1.global-gateway.net.nz 167.555 ms
7 so2-1-0.pabr3.global-gateway.net.nz 200.380 ms

Fran
:):):)

[Mark Foster]

Post by Fran

Post by Mark Foster

Post by w***@paradise.net.nz
But as I said those are 2nd in some cases 3rd hand rumours, so it could
be all lies.

I've done checks with a tool called "MTR" (Matts Traceroute). It does a
traceroute and then pings each hop along the trace.
The problem starts immediately after my DSL router.
Experiencing it again this evening quite badly ...
Mark.

Mine seems to be within Global Gateway...
5 ge-0-3-0-6.akbr3.global-gateway.net.nz 40.894 ms
6 p1-3.sjbr1.global-gateway.net.nz 167.555 ms
7 so2-1-0.pabr3.global-gateway.net.nz 200.380 ms

Fran,

You got a 40ms ping off a network device located in Aucklnad.
It then went up by 120ms or so. Assuming that is infact San Jose, CA (and
its hard to tell as the IP is an APNIC issue, you cant rely on the dns
name... but its a fair guess) then youre traversing Southern Cross
(admin'd by Telecom, so the ip issue makes sense as they administer it)
and youre going to gain about 120ms minimum over that hop anyway.

eg, the sample traceroute you quote isnt particularly bad.

Let me show you something illustrative:

1 dsl500 (192.168.2.254) 1.271 ms 1.287 ms 0.955 ms
2 222-153-0-1.jetstream.xtra.co.nz (222.153.0.1) 1816.298 ms 1773.896
ms 1589.640 ms
3 222.152.127.189 (222.152.127.189) 2155.690 ms 1838.041 ms 2062.902
ms
4 202.50.245.190 (202.50.245.190) 2018.646 ms 2595.093 ms 1965.239 ms


Now _That_ is the kind of performance hit i'm talking about... |

Mark.

[LEE Tet Yoon]

Post by Fran
Mine seems to be within Global Gateway...
5 ge-0-3-0-6.akbr3.global-gateway.net.nz 40.894 ms
6 p1-3.sjbr1.global-gateway.net.nz 167.555 ms
7 so2-1-0.pabr3.global-gateway.net.nz 200.380 ms

I'm not sure but it's possible SJ = San Jose in which case this is a pretty good ping. Please bear in mind that anything going to the US is always going to have at least 100-150 ms on top of any 'domestic' latency. This is a physical limitation* and there is no real way around it. If my assumption is correct and SJ is indeed San Jose the above traceroute doesn't real show much of a problem. However if you're getting significant latency later on, this would suggest a problem with the US side of things which Telecom may not have that much control over.

BTW, if the above was to a domestic destination then you can probably blame depeering and TelstraClear in particular but also Telecom I believe for this stupidity.

*I worked it out before but can't remember now but I believe it's something around the realms of 50-75 ms even if you had a direct link travelling at the speed of light in vacuum over the surface to California. Of course, the true link is not completely direct and goes through a few hubs if I'm not mistaken all of which adds latency. Also, although I'm not an expert on fibre optics, from what I do know I believe the distance travelled per metre of 'cable' is usually going to be greater then a metre and I'm guessing all the amplification steps necessary along the route are not latency free.

[Lennon - Orcon]

Post by Fran
Mine seems to be within Global Gateway...
5 ge-0-3-0-6.akbr3.global-gateway.net.nz 40.894 ms
6 p1-3.sjbr1.global-gateway.net.nz 167.555 ms
7 so2-1-0.pabr3.global-gateway.net.nz 200.380 ms

(I probably made a huge mistake somewhere here which will show the maths all
wrong)
Getting lower than ~120ms to the US and lower than ~25ms to AU is pretty
hard

This is an example from NZ->US.. hop 3->4 is when it leaves NZ and goes to
US

Host Loss% Snt Last Avg
Best Wrst StDev
1. 219.88.240.129 0.0% 6 1.0 1.0
0.6 1.9 0.5
2. 60.234.9.1 0.0% 6 0.6 2.8
0.6 11.5 4.3
3. 203.96.64.125 0.0% 6 1.3 1.5
1.1 2.0 0.3
4. 202.50.116.178 0.0% 6 125.7 126.0
125.7 126.4 0.3
5. 202.37.245.230 0.0% 6 128.4 129.0
127.7 130.9 1.3
6. 202.37.245.102 0.0% 5 128.7 136.8
128.3 169.5 18.3

This is an example from NZ->AU.. hop 3->4 is when it leaves NZ and goes to
AU

1. 219.88.240.129 0.0% 4 1.2 0.9
0.7 1.2 0.2
2. 60.234.9.1 0.0% 4 0.9
0.9 0.8 1.1 0.1
3. 203.96.64.125 0.0% 4 2.1 1.8
1.6 2.1 0.3
4. 203.96.120.230 0.0% 4 25.5 25.7
25.5 26.1 0.3
5. 203.96.117.74 0.0% 4 26.1 26.0
25.5 26.4 0.3
6. 203.63.217.2 0.0% 4 27.2 26.7
25.9 27.3 0.7

The latency between the hops 3->4 in both are caused by well.. 1/2 caused by
distance (speed of light) and 1/2 caused by the routers (its very hard to
process data at the speed of light, so routers have to do it a little
slower)

so NZ->US = 62ms (milliseconds)
NZ->AU = 12ms (milliseconds)

Working out the speed of light it can go in this time (speed of light =
299792458 ms-1) (meters second to the power of -1) (ms-1(speed) * s(time) =
m (distance))
NZ-> US 18587km
NZ->AU 3597km

Actual Distance (estimate)
NZ->US 10517km
NZ->AU 2157km

Thanks
Craig Whitmore

[Juha Saarinen]

Post by Lennon - Orcon
Working out the speed of light it can go in this time (speed of light =
299792458 ms-1) (meters second to the power of -1) (ms-1(speed) *
s(time) = m (distance))

The speed of light in glass fibre is approximately 2/3 of the speed in
vacuum, so use 200,000km/s instead.

[Lennon - Orcon]

Post by Lennon - Orcon
Working out the speed of light it can go in this time (speed of light =
299792458 ms-1) (meters second to the power of -1) (ms-1(speed) * s(time)
= m (distance))

Using correct speed thru fibre = ~1.9 x 10 ^ 8 ms-1 (instead of 3 * 10^8ms-1
via vacuum)
so..

NZ->US = 11780km (62ms * 1.9 x 10 ^ 8 ms-1)
NZ->AU = 2280km (12ms * 1.9 x 10 ^ 8 ms-1)

Actual Distance (estimated)
NZ(AK)->US(CA) 10517km
NZ(AK)->AU(SY) 2157km

So yes working out with the right speed of light thru fibre latency is
caused by the speed of light which makes more sence :-)

Thanks
Craig

[Fran]

Post by Lennon - Orcon

Post by Lennon - Orcon
Working out the speed of light it can go in this time (speed of light =
299792458 ms-1) (meters second to the power of -1) (ms-1(speed) *
s(time) = m (distance))

Using correct speed thru fibre = ~1.9 x 10 ^ 8 ms-1 (instead of 3 *
10^8ms-1 via vacuum)
so..
NZ->US = 11780km (62ms * 1.9 x 10 ^ 8 ms-1)
NZ->AU = 2280km (12ms * 1.9 x 10 ^ 8 ms-1)
Actual Distance (estimated)
NZ(AK)->US(CA) 10517km
NZ(AK)->AU(SY) 2157km
So yes working out with the right speed of light thru fibre latency is
caused by the speed of light which makes more sence :-)

Why use light?
Everyone knows bad-news travels faster...

Fran
:):):)

[s***@vital.org.nz]

Post by Fran
Why use light?
Everyone knows bad-news travels faster...
Fran
:):):)

Was it not Terry Pratchett who observed that since the new king becomes
monarch *immediately* on the death of his predecessor, monarchy must be
transmitted instantaneously, unless interrupted (perhaps by republicon
particles? And that on the Discworld this led to experimental torture of a
very small king to modulate the signal?

*ahem*

Stephen

[Lucas Young]

Hi all
While I wait for Telecom to set JetStream up in my area (we shifted a month
ago and they had organised someone to come and wire us up, who then called
the day before he was due to arrive to tell us JetStream wasn't even
available in our area yet!) I just wanted to ask if anyone had experience of
the Telecom JetStream Plus 2MB plan, in terms of ping and data cap.
We're currently with Orcon on their 256K BiStream uncapped plan and some
months have used up to 15GB, but my friend tells me he's on the Telecom plan
and regularly downloads heaps - one months he downloaded 80GB (!!) and
didn't get throttled. I don't want to go that far, but I'm thinking about
switching to that plan for the speed and don't want to get capped to 64k
over 10gb. Is anyone on this plan who can tell me about the ping times and
how vigorous Telecom are with their throttling?

cheers


Lucas

[Jeff McLuckie]

Hey,
I've had Xtra 2 Meg for about 4 months now. If you go over 10 gig, expect to
be capped. There are lots of stories from varied sources of going stupidly
high over your cap (or even a few gigs) and not being capped.

What you're not hearing is the large number of people on these plans that do
get capped.

If you don't want to get capped for extra usage DON'T get Xtra 2meg.

Ping times:
Mine seem to be all over the place at the moment, between 50 and 175 to
national sites. Our install is still being looked at though.

Cheers,
-Jeff MCLuckie

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@unixathome.org [mailto:owner-***@unixathome.org] On Behalf
Of Lucas Young
Sent: Wednesday, 13 April 2005 8:43 a.m.
To: ADSL
Subject: Question about JetStream Plus 2MB plan

Hi all
While I wait for Telecom to set JetStream up in my area (we shifted a month
ago and they had organised someone to come and wire us up, who then called
the day before he was due to arrive to tell us JetStream wasn't even
available in our area yet!) I just wanted to ask if anyone had experience of
the Telecom JetStream Plus 2MB plan, in terms of ping and data cap.
We're currently with Orcon on their 256K BiStream uncapped plan and some
months have used up to 15GB, but my friend tells me he's on the Telecom plan
and regularly downloads heaps - one months he downloaded 80GB (!!) and
didn't get throttled. I don't want to go that far, but I'm thinking about
switching to that plan for the speed and don't want to get capped to 64k
over 10gb. Is anyone on this plan who can tell me about the ping times and
how vigorous Telecom are with their throttling?

cheers


Lucas
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[LEE Tet Yoon]

Post by Lucas Young
Hi all
While I wait for Telecom to set JetStream up in my area (we shifted a month
ago and they had organised someone to come and wire us up, who then called
the day before he was due to arrive to tell us JetStream wasn't even
available in our area yet!) I just wanted to ask if anyone had experience of
the Telecom JetStream Plus 2MB plan, in terms of ping and data cap.
We're currently with Orcon on their 256K BiStream uncapped plan and some
months have used up to 15GB, but my friend tells me he's on the Telecom plan
and regularly downloads heaps - one months he downloaded 80GB (!!) and
didn't get throttled. I don't want to go that far, but I'm thinking about
switching to that plan for the speed and don't want to get capped to 64k
over 10gb. Is anyone on this plan who can tell me about the ping times and
how vigorous Telecom are with their throttling?

Have you consider using Ihug blink? As mentioned numerous times before, they're able to offer their own 2mbit plan which is basically the same as the Telecom Jetstream plan (it's not Plus anymore BTW) but $10 cheaper although you must have toll calls with Ihug instead of Telecom. Be aware, I do not use Ihug currently and have no experience with their 2mbit plan so I cannot comment on the cap (I suspect it's vigorously enforced in Ihug's case since else they'll run into big problems with Telecom if their average goes above 10 gb at least with UBS when they eventually move there) or ping.

[Mark Foster]

For the record -
I play Battlefield 1942 and have had to moan repeatedly at the Xtra
helpdesk who have indicated they have had multip[le reports lately of load
related issues.

I experience intermittant periods of very high ping to all sites beyond my
default gateway router within Telecoms network. And when I mean ping, I
mean the odd burst of up to 5 seconds with an average of 2 seconds.
(Nevermind the couple of hundred that might be tolerable in a gaming
session.

The end effect is similar to a rate limited line in some cases, although
im not rate limited. i.e. th e link will be fine untill i load it up,
then it will go to pot.

DSL Helpdesk advise they are 'looking into it.' My next game is scheduled
for this coming week so hopefully i'll see some improvement soon :|

Have also noted that even under normal non-rediculous conditions my lag
to the Xtra gaming servers has gone up by 20 or 30 ms lately. (And i'm an
Xtra Customer)

So judging by comments on the list there are problems across the
board....

Mark.

Post by r***@xtra.co.nz
I play erverquest and have noticed the ping time got from 250ms to 450ms. this started about 2 weeks ago. I'm with xtra and 2mb ADSL.
Roger

Date: 2005/04/08 Fri AM 09:29:05 GMT+12:00
Subject: RE: Anyone noticing general performance degradation lately
I've noticed the same as well.
However connecting Via telstra clear results in lower ping times and
faster response. Also during peak tiems (8pmish) I can see my pings go
up and then fall straight back down at 11pm as traffic ebs off.
I've heard word from people in telstra/telecom that xtra's insides are
indeed extremely congested.
All this is AFIK and IMHO.
Rgds
Sachiv
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Simon Cobb
Sent: Friday, 8 April 2005 9:03 a.m.
To: Tony Paterson; ADSL Mailing List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: Anyone noticing general performance degradation lately
Yep - nothing scientific, but sites - both local and international -
seem WAY slower for the past couple of days (I'm a 2Mbps JetStream Plus
user in ChCh).
Cheers,
Simon
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Tony Paterson
Sent: Friday, 8 April 2005 5:03 a.m.
To: ADSL Mailing List (E-mail)
Subject: Anyone noticing general performance degradation lately
Hi,
Anyone else noticing longer latencies and general performance issues.
This started with our Wellington JetStream connection and now I suspect
the same with our Auckland connection - not sure if its just us. Yes I
have reported it for Wellington but now I am noticing it at home as
well, so I am getting suspicious the problem might be bigger.
Cheers
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[LEE Tet Yoon]

Post by Sachiv Mehra
I've noticed the same as well.
However connecting Via telstra clear results in lower ping times and
faster response. Also during peak tiems (8pmish) I can see my pings go
up and then fall straight back down at 11pm as traffic ebs off.
I've heard word from people in telstra/telecom that xtra's insides are
indeed extremely congested.
All this is AFIK and IMHO.

It has been fine here very early morning (12 am-9 am). In game HL pings have bee about 200-300 ms to the US which is about normal. But yesterday, starting at around ~8? am, pings went up to about 300-500 ms.

I know there is a cable failure which is affecting at least Singaporean and Malaysia users. From the Singtel website

"Some Internet users in Singapore and other parts of Asia may experience some delay when assessing websites hosted outside of Singapore today. This is due to a cable failure in the Asia Pacific Cable Network-2 (APCN-2) reported on 7 April 2005."

I've found before that you can go to Singapore and Malaysia and other parts of Asia without going to the US first so I assume that we are connected to them in some way and while I don't know if we normally ever go through this cable, it would seem to me that it's possible they might be using part of our link as back up? Having said that tho, the fact that this appears to be mainly people using Telecom and that two of us have found it's mainly NZ off peak times suggests maybe it's an internal/domestic problem but who know's maybe both are contributing.

I assume someone on NZNOG might have a better idea what's going on, maybe they could tell us. I could browse through the archive but I can't be bothered

In any case, I've heard of pings up to 3s for Singaporean and Malaysian users at the moment so at least be glad it isn't that bad.