Orcon Jetstream (Not UBS) --> ftp.citylink.co.nz

[Jacob Doherty]

Hi,

I've noticed that getting to ftp.citylink.co.nz from my Orcon Jetstream
connection (not UBS) seems to go the long way around:

Heres a traceroute:

Tracing route to ftp.citylink.co.nz [202.7.4.9]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 my.routers.hostname[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
2 210-55-64-160.adsl.netgate.net.nz [210.55.64.160]
3 192-168-253-1.adsl.netgate.net.nz [192.168.253.1]
4 p-c1.akbr1.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.245.237]
5 ge-0-3-0-6.akbr3.global-gateway.net.nz [202.37.246.18]
6 p1-3.sjbr1.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.116.178]
7 203.96.120.214
8 g3-0-111.sjc04.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.11.201]
9 p11-0.core01.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.1.61]
10 p15-0.core02.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com [66.28.4.70]
11 isc.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.11.178]
12 r2-sfo2.r1.sql1.isc.org [192.5.4.248]
13 ftp.citylink.co.nz [202.7.4.9]

My IP address is in the: 222.152.49.xxx range.

Which means I get this nice little message when logging into
ftp.nz.debian.org for example:

550- Your ISP's access to local New Zealand content is currently
550- broken. Please contact your ISP and advise them that they
550- may well be able to fix this problem for you by peering with
550- other ISPs at the APE or the WIX peering points. For further
550- information, please see <http://nzix.net/peerless/ftp>.
550-
550- We apologise for any inconvenience.
Can't establish connection --> ftp.nz.debian.org:21


I know I should probably email the Orcon Helpdesk, but can some nice person
from Orcon/Telecom work some magic to fix it :)


Cheers,


Jacob

[Craig Whitmore]

The message they have up there is slightly wrong..

Should be something like:

550- Your ISP's access to Citylink's content is unavailable.
550- Please contact your ISP and advise them that they
550- may well be able to fix this problem for you by peering with
550- citylink at WIX . For further
550- information, please see <Broken Link>.
550-


The problem is that citylink only make the content accessible (For their own
reasons) via people connected to WIX (Wellington Internet Exchange) which
stops a lot of people accessing it (like most of NZ's dialup and broadband
community (Xtra + others)

Thanks
Craig

-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Jacob Doherty
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 6:56 PM
Subject: Orcon Jetstream (Not UBS) --> ftp.citylink.co.nz
Hi,
I've noticed that getting to ftp.citylink.co.nz from my Orcon Jetstream

[Craig Humphrey]

Citylink's reason for doing this is that traffic between peers on WIX is
free.
If CityLink were to open it up to all NZ, they would be charged by Xtra, to
supply content to Xtra clients (similar for anyone else that doesn't peer
with WIX). I know that sounds the wrong way around, but that's how Xtra
works... (other smaller clients are more likely to be charged by CityLink)

Just my 2c and limited understanding of how the WIX peering works (APE is
similar, but at least Xtra [currently] peer with APE).

Note: I think Telstra have now stopped peering with APE and WIX, so their
customers are in the same boat...

Later'ish
Craig

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 7:24 PM
Subject: RE: Orcon Jetstream (Not UBS) --> ftp.citylink.co.nz
The message they have up there is slightly wrong..
550- Your ISP's access to Citylink's content is unavailable.
550- Please contact your ISP and advise them that they
550- may well be able to fix this problem for you by peering with
550- citylink at WIX . For further
550- information, please see <Broken Link>.
550-
The problem is that citylink only make the content accessible
(For their own
reasons) via people connected to WIX (Wellington Internet
Exchange) which
stops a lot of people accessing it (like most of NZ's dialup
and broadband
community (Xtra + others)
Thanks
Craig

[Richard Naylor]

Post by Craig Humphrey
Citylink's reason for doing this is that traffic between peers on WIX is
free.
If CityLink were to open it up to all NZ, they would be charged by Xtra, to
supply content to Xtra clients (similar for anyone else that doesn't peer
with WIX). I know that sounds the wrong way around, but that's how Xtra
works... (other smaller clients are more likely to be charged by CityLink)

correct. Xtra and Telstra would like us to pay to send data to them, that
they are then selling to their customers. We know that during the LOTR
premiere last year, Telstra sold $250,000 worth of traffic in 5 hours, that
we generated. Telecom would have sold around $500,000. Neither paid us a
cent. We have declined their invitation to pay them to take the traffic.

The error message (we call it the "sorry server") has been modified and now
reads

550- ISP Routing Error
550-

550- Sadly, we can no longer afford to provide this content to
550- entities that do not peer at WIX. Please contact your ISP
550- and advise them that they may well be able to fix this problem
550- for you by peering with other ISPs at the WIX peering points.
550-
550- For further information, please see <http://nzix.net/peerless/ftp>.
550-
550- We apologise for any inconvenience.
550

and the 404 has been fixed.

Peering makes the Internet more efficient and more economical. We really do
encourage ISPs to peer.

rich

[Steven Ellis]

Post by Richard Naylor
Peering makes the Internet more efficient and more economical. We really
do encourage ISPs to peer.

Well said. I'm looking into some weird routing issues for a client at
the moment that has a impact on their website, and it appears to be a
side effect from all of the Telstra de-peering. The client simply can't
belive that Telstra are this dumb.

Think the best solution for the client is to peer directly at APE
themselves.

Steve

[Russell Fulton]

Post by Steven Ellis
Think the best solution for the client is to peer directly at APE
themselves.

or buy services from an ISP with a sensible peering policy.

One question about the citylink server: If one peers at APE can you
still get to the server?
--
Russell Fulton, Information Security Officer, The University of Auckland
New Zealand

[Richard Naylor]

Post by Richard Naylor
Peering makes the Internet more efficient and more economical. We really
do encourage ISPs to peer.

Well said. I'm looking into some weird routing issues for a client at the
moment that has a impact on their website, and it appears to be a side
effect from all of the Telstra de-peering. The client simply can't belive
that Telstra are this dumb.
Think the best solution for the client is to peer directly at APE themselves.

very well put. What people don't fully realise is that both APE and WIX are
open exchanges. ANYONE can join, peer and exchange traffic, almost for
free. APE was free for years - theres a small monthly to cover our costs.
WIX is also free, but you need a connex first.

Thats how we have WIX with around 150 peers and only 20 odd ISPs. You too
can peer and exchange traffic and yes that traffic is free.

rich

[Steve Withers]

Post by Steven Ellis

Post by Richard Naylor
Peering makes the Internet more efficient and more economical. We really
do encourage ISPs to peer.

Well said. I'm looking into some weird routing issues for a client at
the moment that has a impact on their website, and it appears to be a
side effect from all of the Telstra de-peering. The client simply can't
belive that Telstra are this dumb.

The best way to look at TelstraClear is to forget the "Clear" part.

It's Telstra.....and that's the HUGE Aussie telco who can be every bit
as stupid and arrogant as our own Telecom NZ.

In Aussie, Telstra make HUGE amounts of money by owning and controlling
controlling the major peering points of what now privatized (to Telstra)
AARNET (I think that's right).....and charging per MB for almost
everything that moves.

They would like to do the same thing in New Zealand....for their benefit
and NOT for the benefit of any customer.....theirs or anyone else's.

That nice lady on TV, Rosemary Howard, looks like the quintessential,
spread-sheet driven chief exec who couldn't give a stuff about what's
good for Net, customers of anyone but whoever is paying her.

If that means making the Net run backwards, uphill, blindfolded on its
knees....then she'll do it in heartbeat.

[Biff]

Dead right Steve!
Has anyone one anywhere ever met a philanthropic Telco?
I think its part of the breed, customers and technology exist for their sole
benefit, and besides the attitude is "go some where else", if you cant then
if you don't like it you cal always go without.
The trouble is we customer see their services as ours by right, like a phone
and the internet, they see it as a business, its striking an agreed balance
that's the hard part.
Anyway Rosemary has to get her bonus too!
Cheers
Biff

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@unixathome.org [mailto:owner-***@unixathome.org] On Behalf
Of Steve Withers
Sent: Sunday, 28 November 2004 9:14 a.m.
To: adsl list
Subject: Re: Orcon Jetstream (Not UBS) --> ftp.citylink.co.nz

Post by Steven Ellis

Post by Richard Naylor
Peering makes the Internet more efficient and more economical. We really
do encourage ISPs to peer.

Well said. I'm looking into some weird routing issues for a client at
the moment that has a impact on their website, and it appears to be a
side effect from all of the Telstra de-peering. The client simply can't
belive that Telstra are this dumb.

The best way to look at TelstraClear is to forget the "Clear" part.

It's Telstra.....and that's the HUGE Aussie telco who can be every bit
as stupid and arrogant as our own Telecom NZ.

In Aussie, Telstra make HUGE amounts of money by owning and controlling
controlling the major peering points of what now privatized (to Telstra)
AARNET (I think that's right).....and charging per MB for almost
everything that moves.

They would like to do the same thing in New Zealand....for their benefit
and NOT for the benefit of any customer.....theirs or anyone else's.

That nice lady on TV, Rosemary Howard, looks like the quintessential,
spread-sheet driven chief exec who couldn't give a stuff about what's
good for Net, customers of anyone but whoever is paying her.

If that means making the Net run backwards, uphill, blindfolded on its
knees....then she'll do it in heartbeat.
--
This message is part of the NZ ADSL mailing list.
see http://unixathome.org/adsl/ for archives, FAQ,
and various documents.
To unsubscribe: send mail to ***@lists.unixathome.org
with "unsubscribe adsl" in the body of the message

[Ted Grenfell]

Post by Craig Humphrey
Citylink's reason for doing this is that traffic between peers on WIX is
free.
If CityLink were to open it up to all NZ, they would be charged by Xtra, to
supply content to Xtra clients (similar for anyone else that doesn't peer
with WIX). I know that sounds the wrong way around, but that's how Xtra
works... (other smaller clients are more likely to be charged by CityLink)

Who told you that?

Post by Craig Humphrey
Just my 2c and limited understanding of how the WIX peering works (APE is
similar, but at least Xtra [currently] peer with APE).

Xtra does not peer with either the WIX or the APE route servers. We do have
peering partners at both IX's though.

Post by Craig Humphrey
Note: I think Telstra have now stopped peering with APE and WIX, so their
customers are in the same boat...
Later'ish
Craig

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 7:24 PM
Subject: RE: Orcon Jetstream (Not UBS) --> ftp.citylink.co.nz
The message they have up there is slightly wrong..
550- Your ISP's access to Citylink's content is unavailable.
550- Please contact your ISP and advise them that they
550- may well be able to fix this problem for you by peering with
550- citylink at WIX . For further
550- information, please see <Broken Link>.
550-
The problem is that citylink only make the content accessible (For their own
reasons) via people connected to WIX (Wellington Internet
Exchange) which
stops a lot of people accessing it (like most of NZ's dialup
and broadband
community (Xtra + others)
Thanks
Craig

--
This message is part of the NZ ADSL mailing list.
see http://unixathome.org/adsl/ for archives, FAQ,
and various documents.
with "unsubscribe adsl" in the body of the message

Regards,
--
Ted Grenfell, ISP Performance Manager, IS Ops & Service Delivery, Telecom
NZ Limited
Mob: [phone]; DDI: [phone]; Fax: [phone]
ICQ: 191891; MSN Messenger: cameleon @ xtra.co.nz
Level 11, 8 Hereford St, Private Bag 92028, Auckland CBD

This email is for the person(s) identified above, and is confidential to
the sender and the person(s). No one else is authorised to use or
disseminate this email or its contents. The email or its contents do not
necessarily represent the views of Xtra Limited or Telecom.
Please note that this communication does not designate an information
system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002.

[Dan Clark]

Its like their not peering at WIX anymore, did they ever?

Regards
Dan

Post by Jacob Doherty
Hi,
I've noticed that getting to ftp.citylink.co.nz from my Orcon Jetstream
Tracing route to ftp.citylink.co.nz [202.7.4.9]
1 my.routers.hostname[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
2 210-55-64-160.adsl.netgate.net.nz [210.55.64.160]
3 192-168-253-1.adsl.netgate.net.nz [192.168.253.1]
4 p-c1.akbr1.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.245.237]
5 ge-0-3-0-6.akbr3.global-gateway.net.nz [202.37.246.18]
6 p1-3.sjbr1.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.116.178]
7 203.96.120.214
8 g3-0-111.sjc04.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.11.201]
9 p11-0.core01.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.1.61]
10 p15-0.core02.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com [66.28.4.70]
11 isc.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.11.178]
12 r2-sfo2.r1.sql1.isc.org [192.5.4.248]
13 ftp.citylink.co.nz [202.7.4.9]
My IP address is in the: 222.152.49.xxx range.
Which means I get this nice little message when logging into
550- Your ISP's access to local New Zealand content is currently
550- broken. Please contact your ISP and advise them that they
550- may well be able to fix this problem for you by peering with
550- other ISPs at the APE or the WIX peering points. For further
550- information, please see <http://nzix.net/peerless/ftp>.
550-
550- We apologise for any inconvenience.
Can't establish connection --> ftp.nz.debian.org:21
I know I should probably email the Orcon Helpdesk, but can some nice person
from Orcon/Telecom work some magic to fix it :)
Cheers,
Jacob

[Regan Murphy]

If one peers only at APE then who trunks the traffic to WIX?

--
Regan


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@unixathome.org [mailto:owner-***@unixathome.org] On
Behalf Of Russell Fulton
Sent: Friday, 26 November 2004 12:57 p.m.
To: Steven Ellis
Cc: ***@lists.unixathome.org
Subject: Re: Orcon Jetstream (Not UBS) --> ftp.citylink.co.nz

Post by Steven Ellis
Think the best solution for the client is to peer directly at APE
themselves.

or buy services from an ISP with a sensible peering policy.

One question about the citylink server: If one peers at APE can you
still get to the server?