Discussion:
USR 9105 versus Nokia M1122
Robert Davies
2004-09-16 05:05:33 UTC
Permalink
Sometime ago someone asked about the relative speed of the M1122 versus
a more modern router for a difficult line. Here is one example. I am based
some distance from the exchange and so can't expect full speed. I have
just switched from a Nokia M1122 to a USR 9105 ($185 from Ascent Technology)

These are the download speed measurements for the new and old routers based
on 4 blocks of 1 megabyte using the www.jetstreamgames.co.nz/speed site.

USR 9105: 2.5 megabits / second

Nokia M1122: 1.8 megabits / second

Although there was quite a bit of variation between the 1 megabyte blocks
I am pretty confident that the USR is faster (for downloads).


Robert
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Craig Whitmore
2004-09-16 05:50:18 UTC
Permalink
The speed may be different as they connected at different speeds. (not cuase
they can route any faster) I know with the M1122 depending on the version of
firmware you use it will connect at quite different soeeds. Also different
version of the USr might give different connection speeds.

Knowing all this information might help a lot to compare them

Thanks
Craig
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Robert Davies
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 5:06 PM
Subject: USR 9105 versus Nokia M1122
Sometime ago someone asked about the relative speed of the M1122 versus
a more modern router for a difficult line. Here is one example. I am based
some distance from the exchange and so can't expect full speed. I have
just switched from a Nokia M1122 to a USR 9105 ($185 from Ascent Technology)
These are the download speed measurements for the new and old routers based
on 4 blocks of 1 megabyte using the www.jetstreamgames.co.nz/speed site.
USR 9105: 2.5 megabits / second
Nokia M1122: 1.8 megabits / second
Although there was quite a bit of variation between the 1 megabyte blocks
I am pretty confident that the USR is faster (for downloads).
Robert
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Robert Davies
2004-09-16 09:25:52 UTC
Permalink
Updated version including software version numbers.

Some time ago someone asked about the relative speed of the M1122 versus
a more modern router for a difficult line. Here is one example. I am based
some distance from the exchange and so can't expect full speed. I have
just switched from a Nokia M1122 to a USR 9105 ($185 from Ascent Technology).

The M1122's software is version Gx1x2230.G03 and hardware version is
T66280.01 G.
The 9105's firmware is version 1142_082603-2.12L.01.a0_23a.

These are the download speed measurements for the new and old routers based
on 4 blocks of 1 megabyte using the www.jetstreamgames.co.nz/speed site.

USR 9105: 2.5 megabits / second

Nokia M1122: 1.8 megabits / second

Although there was quite a bit of variation between the 1 megabyte blocks
I am pretty confident that the USR is faster (for downloads).


Robert
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Neil Gardner
2004-09-16 10:36:33 UTC
Permalink
I think what the original respondant was wanting to know was the negotiated
line speeds... No semi-modern ADSL router (M1122 even qualifies) should have
any problem keeping up with routing plain traffic at these speeds, but the
individual chipsets, design decisions, gain programmed in etc mean that some
devices can reliably hold higher connect speeds on dodgy lines... So
reporting the up and down trained rates would also be useful, as would some
idea of stability - ie. How long between retrains...

Cheers - Neil G

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@unixathome.org [mailto:owner-***@unixathome.org] On Behalf
Of Robert Davies
Sent: Thursday, 16 September 2004 9:26 p.m.
To: ***@lists.unixathome.org
Subject: USR 9105 versus Nokia M1122

Updated version including software version numbers.

Some time ago someone asked about the relative speed of the M1122 versus a
more modern router for a difficult line. Here is one example. I am based
some distance from the exchange and so can't expect full speed. I have just
switched from a Nokia M1122 to a USR 9105 ($185 from Ascent Technology).

The M1122's software is version Gx1x2230.G03 and hardware version is
T66280.01 G.
The 9105's firmware is version 1142_082603-2.12L.01.a0_23a.

These are the download speed measurements for the new and old routers based
on 4 blocks of 1 megabyte using the www.jetstreamgames.co.nz/speed site.

USR 9105: 2.5 megabits / second

Nokia M1122: 1.8 megabits / second

Although there was quite a bit of variation between the 1 megabyte blocks I
am pretty confident that the USR is faster (for downloads).


Robert

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Benny
2004-09-16 23:28:06 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Does any one have a working Cisco 827 config template they can send me?
Nzdsl still getting redesigned so couldn't get one off there.

It would be great if the config includes dhcp and also some port forwarding
examples.

Cheers,
Benny
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David Mill
2004-09-16 23:49:40 UTC
Permalink
My Cisco 827 is at home is configured with what you need but it's currently
unplugged and powered off.

If you haven't received a response by anyone by about 5pm let me know and
I'll grab you my config.

Warning : beer'o'clock may delay my response by hours/days.

Dave
Post by Benny
Hi,
Does any one have a working Cisco 827 config template they can send me?
Nzdsl still getting redesigned so couldn't get one off there.
It would be great if the config includes dhcp and also some port
forwarding examples.
Cheers,
Benny
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Craig Whitmore
2004-09-17 00:05:33 UTC
Permalink
I'll add the link to the site now.

Thanks
Craig
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Benny
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 11:28 AM
Subject: Cisco 827
Hi,
Does any one have a working Cisco 827 config template they can send me?
Nzdsl still getting redesigned so couldn't get one off there.
It would be great if the config includes dhcp and also some port forwarding
examples.
Cheers,
Benny
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see http://unixathome.org/adsl/ for archives, FAQ,
and various documents.
with "unsubscribe adsl" in the body of the message
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Robert Davies
2004-09-17 03:33:41 UTC
Permalink
The USR 9105 ADSL statistics page reports

Downstream Upstream

Attainable rate (Kbps) 3808 928
Rate (Kbps) 3520 832

These look like negotiated figures and don't fluctuate, at
least while I have been looking at them. Are they the
"line speeds"? I don't know how to tell how long between
retrains.

I suppose the Nokia M1122 also had a log of such figures but
it is not now connected.

For the user's point of view, though, I would have thought the
achieved values with the Telecom test site were more important.

On a different topic:
the USR can produce a log of probes from the Internet. There
seems to be one every few seconds. Typical ports probed are
16708, 445, 139, 135.

Robert
Post by Neil Gardner
I think what the original respondant was wanting to know was the negotiated
line speeds... No semi-modern ADSL router (M1122 even qualifies) should have
any problem keeping up with routing plain traffic at these speeds, but the
individual chipsets, design decisions, gain programmed in etc mean that some
devices can reliably hold higher connect speeds on dodgy lines... So
reporting the up and down trained rates would also be useful, as would some
idea of stability - ie. How long between retrains...
Cheers - Neil G
-----Original Message-----
Of Robert Davies
Sent: Thursday, 16 September 2004 9:26 p.m.
Subject: USR 9105 versus Nokia M1122
Updated version including software version numbers.
Some time ago someone asked about the relative speed of the M1122 versus a
more modern router for a difficult line. Here is one example. I am based
some distance from the exchange and so can't expect full speed. I have just
switched from a Nokia M1122 to a USR 9105 ($185 from Ascent Technology).
The M1122's software is version Gx1x2230.G03 and hardware version is
T66280.01 G.
The 9105's firmware is version 1142_082603-2.12L.01.a0_23a.
These are the download speed measurements for the new and old routers based
on 4 blocks of 1 megabyte using the www.jetstreamgames.co.nz/speed site.
USR 9105: 2.5 megabits / second
Nokia M1122: 1.8 megabits / second
Although there was quite a bit of variation between the 1 megabyte blocks I
am pretty confident that the USR is faster (for downloads).
Robert
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see http://unixathome.org/adsl/ for archives, FAQ, and various documents.
"unsubscribe adsl" in the body of the message
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Internet Access List
2004-09-17 00:57:26 UTC
Permalink
http://www.ifm.net.nz/cookbooks/configwizard.html

Take 2 with a URL that works

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@unixathome.org [mailto:owner-***@unixathome.org] On
Behalf Of Benny
Sent: Friday, 17 September 2004 11:28
To: ***@lists.unixathome.org
Subject: Cisco 827

Hi,

Does any one have a working Cisco 827 config template they can send me?
Nzdsl still getting redesigned so couldn't get one off there.

It would be great if the config includes dhcp and also some port
forwarding examples.

Cheers,
Benny


--
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documents.
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Internet Access List
2004-09-17 00:55:29 UTC
Permalink
http://www.ifm.net.nz/cookbooks/configwizard.html=20

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@unixathome.org [mailto:owner-***@unixathome.org] On
Behalf Of Benny
Sent: Friday, 17 September 2004 11:28
To: ***@lists.unixathome.org
Subject: Cisco 827

Hi,

Does any one have a working Cisco 827 config template they can send me?
Nzdsl still getting redesigned so couldn't get one off there.

It would be great if the config includes dhcp and also some port
forwarding examples.

Cheers,
Benny


--
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see http://unixathome.org/adsl/ for archives, FAQ, and various
documents.
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Benny
2004-09-17 11:30:41 UTC
Permalink
Thanks all!

I got some configs sent to me off list as well. I think I have all that I
need now. Thanks everyone again for the quick response.

Cheers
Benny

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@unixathome.org [mailto:owner-***@unixathome.org] On Behalf
Of Internet Access List
Sent: Friday, 17 September 2004 12:55 p.m.
To: ***@lists.unixathome.org
Subject: RE: Cisco 827

http://www.ifm.net.nz/cookbooks/configwizard.html=20

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@unixathome.org [mailto:owner-***@unixathome.org] On
Behalf Of Benny
Sent: Friday, 17 September 2004 11:28
To: ***@lists.unixathome.org
Subject: Cisco 827

Hi,

Does any one have a working Cisco 827 config template they can send me?
Nzdsl still getting redesigned so couldn't get one off there.

It would be great if the config includes dhcp and also some port
forwarding examples.

Cheers,
Benny


--
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documents.
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Robert Davies
2004-09-19 11:46:33 UTC
Permalink
This answers some questions raised by some follow-ups to my previous
postings (public and private), see below for earlier posting.

Does the software upgrade to the USR 9105 make any difference? The version
is now 1556_011604-2.12L.01.a0_23a and it makes no appreciable difference.

What are the line-speeds reported by the modems?

Nokia M1122
Downstream Upstream
Attainable bit-rate 2752 576
Actual bitrate 2336 608

USR 9105
Downstream Upstream
Attainable rate (Kbps) 3808 928
Rate (Kbps) 3520 832

The difference between these figures and the observed ones below may be due
to the time it takes the packets to wend their way through Windows XP's new
fire-wall or, maybe, you can never get the rates the router claims. I
don't think the differences in this case are large enough to get excited
about.

What about time between retrains? The log over 15 hours on the USR 9105
showed one retrain following what I interpret as a short ADSL outage. So
I don't think retrains are an issue.

One correspondent pointed out my results don't necessarily imply that the
9105 is always better than the M1122 and that, of course, is a true statement.

Robert


-----Original Message-----
Post by Neil Gardner
Some time ago someone asked about the relative speed of the M1122 versus a
more modern router for a difficult line. Here is one example. I am based
some distance from the exchange and so can't expect full speed. I have just
switched from a Nokia M1122 to a USR 9105 ($185 from Ascent Technology).
The M1122's software is version Gx1x2230.G03 and hardware version is
T66280.01 G.
The 9105's firmware is version 1142_082603-2.12L.01.a0_23a.
These are the download speed measurements for the new and old routers based
on 4 blocks of 1 megabyte using the www.jetstreamgames.co.nz/speed site.
USR 9105: 2.5 megabits / second
Nokia M1122: 1.8 megabits / second
Although there was quite a bit of variation between the 1 megabyte blocks I
am pretty confident that the USR is faster (for downloads).
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Lennon - Orcon
2004-09-19 19:07:51 UTC
Permalink
Technology).
Post by Robert Davies
The M1122's software is version Gx1x2230.G03 and hardware version is
T66280.01 G.
The 9105's firmware is version 1142_082603-2.12L.01.a0_23a.
Please upgrade the M1122 to the latest firmware and retest .
2230.G03 (I presume you really mean 2230.R03 ) is not the latest. (2230.R04
is)
Also going back to an older version of firmware might be a good
comparison.(or testing all - I have 10 different versions of the firmware
for the M1122 at the moment)

Email me if you want a copy of the firmware(s)

Thanks
Craig
http://www.nzdsl.co.nz
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l***@ihug.co.nz
2004-09-23 23:53:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Davies
This answers some questions raised by some follow-ups to
my previous
postings (public and private), see below for earlier
posting.
Does the software upgrade to the USR 9105 make any
difference? The version
is now 1556_011604-2.12L.01.a0_23a and it makes no
appreciable difference.
What are the line-speeds reported by the modems?
Nokia M1122
Downstream Upstream
Attainable bit-rate 2752 576
Actual bitrate 2336 608
USR 9105
Downstream Upstream
Attainable rate (Kbps) 3808 928
Rate (Kbps) 3520 832
The difference between these figures and the observed ones
below may be due
to the time it takes the packets to wend their way through
Windows XP's new
fire-wall or, maybe, you can never get the rates the
router claims. I
don't think the differences in this case are large enough
to get excited
about.
What about time between retrains? The log over 15 hours on
the USR 9105
showed one retrain following what I interpret as a short
ADSL outage. So
I don't think retrains are an issue.
I was busy when this first came up and then forgot about it
but I think I was the original person who requested the
info.

Craig was right, I was talking about the line speeds
reported by the modem. As Craig has pointed out, to my
knowledge there is no reason I know of any decent modem
should not be able to achieve the line speed it's connected
at. Usage tests on FTP servers and such are likely to be
somewhat unreliable since there are other factors which can
affect the speed. A sustained transfer over a long period
(say half an hour or so) during off peak times (3 am maybe)
repeated several times should give a consistent value but
since most modems report line speeds, it probably isn't
necessary to go to so much trouble.

I now have a M1122. The connected line speed varies from
2600-3000kbps down and about 800 up. I don't think there has
even been a retrain. It generally connects at the lower end
of the spectrum but is variable (at least in the 10x or so I
tested it). I do have the latest firmware.

A friend also tested his DSE ADSL router here and it
connected at around 3080kbps. Whether it always gets this
and whether it can maintain this speed I don't know, it's
not been tested.

For future reports, it might also be interesting to see
attentuation and SNR margins (and any other statistics that
are relevant to line conditions).

As an aside, the reason your actual measured bitrate is
lower then the connected bitrate is because of overhead.
I've just found this out (even though I've observed it for
about 2 years) but it's actually quite widely reported (do a
Google). There is a ~10% ATM overhead and ~3% TCP/IP
overhead. Based on what I've read, ATM uses 53 byte cells,
of which only 48 bytes are data. This gives 10.417%
overhead. For AAL5, there is also a 8 byte SAR header for
every IP packet and so padding may be necessary depending on
packet size.

There are a few ISPs (some Aussie business connections I
think and ADSL in Malaysia) which limit your line speed by
limiting the maximum connection rate. This of course means
you do not actually achieve that rate in transfers due to
the overhead. This also means that you'll need to have a
line speed of about 2400kbps to be able to achieve the
planned 2mbps plans.

These sites may help:
http://sd.wareonearth.com/~phil/net/overhead/
http://www.techfest.com/networking/atm/atmaal.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asynchronous Transfer Mode
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2364.txt
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