New Telecom Jetstream plans (2mbit & 1mbit)

[LEE Tet Yoon]

Telecom have launched their retail 1mbit and 2mbit offerings well before they offer their wholesale plans. While I'm sure many have been expecting this, including me, I didn't expect it to be so early.

They've also decided to offer 192 upstream instead of 128k. Not much but something I suppose. Interestingly, they do not have 512k plans

One thing I'm not clear on is will people be considered customers of their own ISPs so the ISPs will not have to pay the churn fee when 512k, 1mbit and 2mbit UBS is finally offered or will they be considered customers of Xtra/Telecom? I.E. They can change between UBS and these plans without churn within the same ISP. It sounds to me as if they should be customers of whichever ISPs they choose, but I'm not sure.

http://www.idg.co.nz/news.nsf/A0DFA2A549E823C0CC256D9600196ABD/7CB391F4784DAC5CCC256F190014B86D

[Tom Parker]

Post by LEE Tet Yoon
One thing I'm not clear on is will people be considered customers of their
own ISPs so the ISPs will not have to pay the churn fee when 512k, 1mbit and
2mbit UBS is finally offered or will they be considered customers of
Xtra/Telecom?

One question about the churn fee, who is it payed to? Telecom, or the ISP the
customer is departing? I've not seen this explicitly explained. The latter
could be defendable, but the former is quite strange when Xtra == Telecom.

My take on your question is that the customer would have to be considered a
customer of no isp, so you could swap from non UBS to UBS and change ISP at
the same time. I say this because how can the provider of your email address
and helpdesk have any effect on your transition to UBS?

Still, it's probably irrellevant as I don't see anyone signing up for UBS
now, and if telecom keep this up, ever.

Being a woosh user, 10 times the speed and 4 or 5 times less latency for a
little more than twice the price seems quite tempting (I have no phone line so
I'd have to factor that in to the cost).

--
Tom Parker - ***@carrott.org
- http://www.carrott.org

[l***@ihug.co.nz]

Post by Tom Parker
One question about the churn fee, who is it payed to?
Telecom, or the ISP the customer is departing? I've not
seen this explicitly explained. The latter could be
defendable, but the former is quite strange when Xtra ==
Telecom.

My original belief was that it goes to the ISP. This seemed
to be what the reports were suggesting. Of course, Xtra will
usually be that ISP in the immediate future for reasons I've
pointed out before.

However there were suggestions that it was also partly a
cost recovery exercise for moving customers between UBS
providers which wouldn't make sense if it goes to the ISP.

Post by Tom Parker
My take on your question is that the customer would have
to be considered a customer of no isp, so you could swap
from non UBS to UBS and change ISP at the same time. I say
this because how can the provider of your email address
and helpdesk have any effect on your transition to UBS?

This was discussed before. Remember that the reason for the
churn fee is to discourage churn, therefore it doesn't have
to make sense. The suggestion at the time was that in the
future Telecom plans would be Xtra plans i.e. you would have
to pay churn to move between them and a UBS plan.

However I was never sure about this, especially with regards
to their flatrate and other plans that ISPs could not offer
through UBS but wasn't that interested at the time so follow
up.

Post by Tom Parker
Still, it's probably irrellevant as I don't see anyone
signing up for UBS now, and if telecom keep this up, ever.

I'm still considering UBS. Telecom's 2mbit/192k plan is
tempting but still only 10gb and with 2 mbit/192k you could
quite easily go over that in no time. More importantly, with
256k/128k you can still go over 10gb, not as fast perhaps
but with Orcon at least, you'll always be 256k/128k. If
Telecom had reduced the speed of the 2mbit/192k plan to
256/128k (instead of 64k) after 10gb, at least for say 30gb,
they could have really totally destroyed UBS IMHO.

More importantly, even if I do go to 2mbit, I do expect to
move to UBS eventually (unless I move to WC first). Telecom
have claimed they're going to offer 2mbit UBS some time next
year and while it remains to be seen if they will deliver,
if they do, I will probably switch. Telecom is unlikely to
offer anything that much better than what a good ISP will
offer (well provided ISPs aren't too scared of what Telecom
is going to do next to offer anything). My line's downstream
is already near it's limit at 2mbit so even full JS won't be
much better, except for the upstream part.

Post by Tom Parker
Being a woosh user, 10 times the speed and 4 or 5 times
less latency for a little more than twice the price seems
quite tempting (I have no phone line so I'd have to factor
that in to the cost).

Er? Woosh isn't 10 times the speed, their best home user
plan they have is 250k and the best business plan 500k. From
all I've heard, they do not have less latency then Telecom's
JS, in fact, it's often worse and it's very spiky which is a
killer for any latency sensitive app.

Wired Country does have better latency then JS, and it might
be 4-5x better (from what I've heard ~10-15 ms compared to
45ms of JS) but it isn't 10x the speed in fact the best home
user plans are 2 mbit so the same as the new JS. Upstream is
quite a lot better, around 1.5mbit for the 2mbit plans I
believe but still not 10x the speed. But still, you aren't
using Telecom which is always good and the ISPs are free to
offer whatever they want you get a greater variety of plans
compared to Telecom JS's (free national, more data etc).

TC cable (Paradise) you can get 10mbit (which is only 5x)
but still rather low data caps and they don't have a flat
rate option either so if your not careful you could either
up with a rather large bill... Also altho national is
currently 10x less than international from what I've heard,
it's not clear if this will remain and since they seem
intent on destroying peering in NZ...

[Sascha Beaumont]

Post by l***@ihug.co.nz
TC cable (Paradise) you can get 10mbit (which is only 5x)
but still rather low data caps and they don't have a flat
rate option either so if your not careful you could either
up with a rather large bill... Also altho national is
currently 10x less than international from what I've heard,
it's not clear if this will remain and since they seem
intent on destroying peering in NZ...

Well from the telstraclear website, there is no mention of
differentiated international/domestic traffic. But here are the
figures of these "low" data caps

These are the figures for residential cable modem high speed internet,
fullspeed ADSL is in the vicinity of Jetstream pricing

(note: prices are rounded a bit...)

2Mbps/512k, $50, 1Gb of traffic then $5 per 100Mb
2Mbps/512k, $70, 5Gb of traffic then $10 per 500Mb.
10Mbps/1024k, $150, 10Gb of traffic then $15 per 1000Mb.

Compared to the newly announced jetstream plans which won't be
available until the end of the month anyway, they're not too bad.

The 10Mbit/10Gb plan has been around for a few months, I've got a
couple of geeky friends who are loving it, although they regularly
exceed their 10Gb limit, compared to jetstream, $15/gb is peanuts.

[Tom Parker]

Post by l***@ihug.co.nz
This was discussed before. Remember that the reason for the
churn fee is to discourage churn, therefore it doesn't have
to make sense. The suggestion at the time was that in the
future Telecom plans would be Xtra plans i.e. you would have
to pay churn to move between them and a UBS plan.

...therefore it doesn't have to make sense... I like that

Post by l***@ihug.co.nz

Post by Tom Parker
Being a woosh user, 10 times the speed and 4 or 5 times
less latency for a little more than twice the price seems
quite tempting (I have no phone line so I'd have to factor
that in to the cost).

Er? Woosh isn't 10 times the speed, their best home user
plan they have is 250k and the best business plan 500k. From
all I've heard, they do not have less latency then Telecom's
JS, in fact, it's often worse and it's very spiky which is a
killer for any latency sensitive app.

Sorry, you've got the wrong end of the stick, I'm on 256k Woosh, which is
almost 10 times slower, and around 4 or 5 times more latency than the 2Mbit
adsl being discussed. If I had a phoneline there would be no contest, I would
have adsl installed tomorrow. But since I don't have a phone line, and don't
feel a huge need for one, I can't justify $100 or so for ADSL+phoneline.

Post by l***@ihug.co.nz
Wired Country does have better latency then JS, and it might
TC cable (Paradise) you can get 10mbit (which is only 5x)

These two aren't currently options for me due to geography.

--
Tom Parker - ***@carrott.org
- http://www.carrott.org

[l***@ihug.co.nz]

Post by Sascha Beaumont
Well from the telstraclear website, there is no mention of
differentiated international/domestic traffic. But here
are the figures of these "low" data caps

Yes, they used to advertise it. Now they don't altho my
understanding is it still the case provided the traffic is
domestic. I heard TC were worried that people will complain
about being charged international rates for traffic which
should be domestic, which seems even more likely in the
future and I've heard they may just remove the
differentiation.

Post by Sascha Beaumont
These are the figures for residential cable modem high
speed internet, fullspeed ADSL is in the vicinity of
Jetstream pricing
(note: prices are rounded a bit...)
2Mbps/512k, $50, 1Gb of traffic then $5 per 100Mb
2Mbps/512k, $70, 5Gb of traffic then $10 per 500Mb.
10Mbps/1024k, $150, 10Gb of traffic then $15 per 1000Mb.
Compared to the newly announced jetstream plans which
won't be available until the end of the month anyway,
they're not too bad.

Not too bad but not too good either. I actually checked the
page just to make sure I was right b4 I posted so I'm aware
of their plans.

10mbit is very fast. But it's about double the price and the
only extra you get is the speed. Personally, 2mbit is
probably enough most of the time even for 3 users. Having
used Ihug Ultra for quite a long time with about 4 mbit I've
seen how nice extreme speeds is. But still I would def not
be willing to pay 2x more for 10mbit with the same data.
IMHO, 10gb is low for 2mbit let alone 10mbit. So I see it as
a low data cap. Even more so if they don't seperate national
and international.

Post by Sascha Beaumont
The 10Mbit/10Gb plan has been around for a few months,
I've got a couple of geeky friends who are loving it,
although they regularly exceed their 10Gb limit, compared
to jetstream, $15/gb is peanuts.

Compared to the old JS it is. But it's still quite high IMHO
especially considering you paid double the new JS price in
the first place. Altho I like the idea of being able to pay
more for data, I probably won't especially if I'm already
paying $150/month but probably even if I'm paying ~$70/month
for JS.

Also, the new JS plan is 2 cents/mb if you want to pay
extra. This is nearly the same as the $9.95 for 500mb of the
2mbit 5gb TC cable plan! And you can use however much you
want with the JS plans, you don't have to pay for data
blocks first.

For the 10mbit plan, you'll have to pay $390/month before
you break even with the JS 2mbit plan with despite it's
slightly cheaper data cost (ignoring the higher speed)

So the TC plans, as they stand are IMHO clearly worse then
the JS plans (well due to the national differentation which
I believe still stands at the moment perhaps it's not so
clear) altho yes it was b4 Telecom and TC may respond with
lower prices and/or data cap changes.

But in any case, it's kind of irrelevant since I wasn't
suggesting Telecoms new plans were excellent. They are
better then TC cable at the moment IMHO but the best (altho
not by so much anymore) is still offered by WC ISPs.
Ezysurf's 2mbit for $109 and 20gb international (free
national) offers at least 10gb (the more national you use,
the more you get) more than the JS plan for ~$39 more (and a
lot higher upstream) altho it is still 5 cents/mb. If you
don't want so much data, you could go for Ihug's 1mbps plan
(slower than JS but maybe better esp if you use a lot of
national).

Hopefully now that Telecom is beginning to compete and as
more people get faster connections (and use more data), we
will see better things from all parties. This could be
greatly accelerated if Telecoms gets their act together and
offers real UBS with 2mbit...

P.S. Assuming you use the full 10mbps connection, you could
go over your 10gb cap in 2.5h...

P.P.S. I just realised Orcon is in even worse trouble then I
original though. Most people who do stick with their UBS
will be those who do expect to go over 10gb!

[Steve Withers]

These new plans GUT the current 256k Surf ADSL option.

They reduce these to only ONE GB / month.....

That's fairly pathetic.

......and they nothing about static IP. This is an essential item for
me. I've been running my own mail server at home since 1998.

Steve

Post by LEE Tet Yoon
Telecom have launched their retail 1mbit and 2mbit offerings well before they offer their wholesale plans. While I'm sure many have been expecting this, including me, I didn't expect it to be so early.
They've also decided to offer 192 upstream instead of 128k. Not much but something I suppose. Interestingly, they do not have 512k plans
One thing I'm not clear on is will people be considered customers of their own ISPs so the ISPs will not have to pay the churn fee when 512k, 1mbit and 2mbit UBS is finally offered or will they be considered customers of Xtra/Telecom? I.E. They can change between UBS and these plans without churn within the same ISP. It sounds to me as if they should be customers of whichever ISPs they choose, but I'm not sure.
http://www.idg.co.nz/news.nsf/A0DFA2A549E823C0CC256D9600196ABD/7CB391F4784DAC5CCC256F190014B86D

[Nathan Legg]

I believe if you want a static ip you're best to have a chat with the isp,
as some may offer it, but don't advertise it for various reasons.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Withers" <***@mmp.org.nz>
To: "adsl list" <***@lists.unixathome.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: New Telecom Jetstream plans (2mbit & 1mbit)

Post by Steve Withers
These new plans GUT the current 256k Surf ADSL option.
They reduce these to only ONE GB / month.....
That's fairly pathetic.
......and they nothing about static IP. This is an essential item for
me. I've been running my own mail server at home since 1998.
Steve

Post by LEE Tet Yoon
Telecom have launched their retail 1mbit and 2mbit offerings well before
they offer their wholesale plans. While I'm sure many have been expecting
this, including me, I didn't expect it to be so early.
They've also decided to offer 192 upstream instead of 128k. Not much but
something I suppose. Interestingly, they do not have 512k plans
One thing I'm not clear on is will people be considered customers of
their own ISPs so the ISPs will not have to pay the churn fee when 512k,
1mbit and 2mbit UBS is finally offered or will they be considered
customers of Xtra/Telecom? I.E. They can change between UBS and these
plans without churn within the same ISP. It sounds to me as if they
should be customers of whichever ISPs they choose, but I'm not sure.
http://www.idg.co.nz/news.nsf/A0DFA2A549E823C0CC256D9600196ABD/7CB391F4784DAC5CCC256F190014B86D

--
This message is part of the NZ ADSL mailing list.
see http://unixathome.org/adsl/ for archives, FAQ,
and various documents.
with "unsubscribe adsl" in the body of the message

[Bart Hanson]

Post by Nathan Legg
I believe if you want a static ip you're best to have a chat with the
isp, as some may offer it, but don't advertise it for various reasons.

I reckon Telecom just want dumb users who are thrilled with getting
emails and ability to surf the web, oh... and to see a brand new
updated extra homepage every day, magic!

Users needing a static IP though are likely to be more savvy and want to
a/ access their computer/network from outside (ftp etc.)
b/ run a web or mail server
These users MAY use more traffic and IMHO Telecom think these users DO
use more traffic and so do not like giving out Static IP's. Most other
ISP's have no problem giving out static IP's, I even know of one ISP
who can allocate static to PPP dialup accounts.

Bart.

[Simon Byrnand]

Post by Steve Withers
These new plans GUT the current 256k Surf ADSL option.
They reduce these to only ONE GB / month.....
That's fairly pathetic.

Erm, are you reading the same article as the rest of us ? (And did you
look at the table at the bottom ?)

How is giving you the SAME data cap, much faster speed, for the SAME price
gutting the plans ?

The 1GB and 3GB surf plans are staying the same except they're
substituting slowing down to 64Kbit for excess use charges. If you don't
want to be slowed down because you go over your cap all the time just go
up to the next plan.

The 10GB plan is also the same as before except the speed is much faster,
and there is the option to pay extra usage over the cap instead of being
slowed down - an option that some people were bleating for when the Surf
plans first came out. (Check the archives of this list)

Making the cheaper plans slow down instead of charging excess use, and
giving the option of either slowing down or charging excess use on the
highest plan seems very logical to me, much more so than the existing Surf
plans.

Post by Steve Withers
......and they nothing about static IP. This is an essential item for
me. I've been running my own mail server at home since 1998.

There is no mention of a static IP, no, but there is nothing that
explicitely says you can't have one either. And if you have a static IP
now on the Surf plans its likely you'll keep it when you are migrated
over.

I hardly call any of this gutting the plans, however the ones that WILL be
gutted are ISP's persuing UBS, who were only sprung with information about
these new plans last Friday...

Regards,
Simon

[Sascha Beaumont]

Post by Steve Withers
......and they nothing about static IP. This is an essential item for
me. I've been running my own mail server at home since 1998.

Having a static IP is no requirement for running your own mail server
at home. I've used to run one on a dynamic ip without any problems
whatsoever.

It's just simply a matter of knowing how to setup the DNS, and being
able to control your DNS. On your DNS server you just point the MX
record to some dynamically updated domain name that resolves to your
IP address.

eg: testdomain.com. 250000 IN MX 10 mailserver.no-ip.org.

No need for static IPs, just keep your dynamic dns update client
running and everything is fine. Personally I use zoneedit.com for DNS,
and by using the ddclient utility I can keep say mail.domain.com
updated as a dynamic dns address, while managing the rest of the DNS
through their web interface.

The only reason I stopped running a mail server this way was that my
DSL modem decided to crap out a while back, so I had to move
everything over to another server and have never bothered shifting it
back.

If you have a reliable connection and know how to work the dns system
properly, there is no need for a static ip to run a webserver,
mailserver or whatever.

[LEE Tet Yoon]

Post by Steve Withers
These new plans GUT the current 256k Surf ADSL option.
They reduce these to only ONE GB / month.....

Well since the current 10gb/flatrate Surf option is $10 more than the new 2mbit plan, the question would have to be why on EARTH would you still want the 10gb Surf plan? And BTW, there is a 3gb Surf/256k option. Unless you were expecting them to offer the 10gb/flatrate Surf plan for $40 or whatever which was never likely with Telecom, even UBS providers have not be able ...

You can of course still go UBS. If you take Orcon for example, you will get unlimited and if you hurry up and sign up before October it will be effectively $20 less than the 2mbit plan ($10 less for the plan, $10 less for for ISP), well unless you don't have tolls with Telecom then it will be $30 less. Although as I have pointed out, most people who stay with UBS are likely to be the ones who expect to use more then 10gb so I think Orcon is going to have problems, even more so since they pay more if their users use more then 10gb average and they use Telecom's backhaul.

Post by Steve Withers
That's fairly pathetic.
......and they nothing about static IP. This is an essential item for
me. I've been running my own mail server at home since 1998.

Telecom have never ever liked static IPs for residential connections and it has been again the TOS to run servers for quite a while I believe...

However, I suspect others ISPs will continue to offer static IPs with the new plans as they have often done, despite Telecom's dislike. And of course, they have never (to my knowledge) gone after anyone for hosting servers despite it being against their TOS.

[LEE Tet Yoon]

Post by LEE Tet Yoon
Well since the current 10gb/flatrate Surf option is $10 more than the new 2mbit plan, the question would have to be why on EARTH

Ooops. The 10gb/flatrate Surf option is the same price as the new 2mbit plan. Sorry slight mistake...